Panthers need to make move at CB

[Fox007]

If you were to actually start at the beginning rather than jumping into the middle, you would find that I already posted

That should make it pretty clear that I know he's not signed (anywhere) making him a FA.

BTW: Ryne Robinson is, for 2 more years even, and will be our kick and punt return man.

I didn't jump in the middle, but I did miss that.

Right on though.

[CRA]

Dude, you are the only one talking "potential" here, as in Miller could potentially return to the same calibre of play following his injury. I won't call it Pro-bowl level because it was not excessively spectacular. You are too caught up in a couple flashy plays which isn't Panther/Fox football.

When I mentioned Robinson, it was because he is signed and is a Fox pick. He also has a higher percentage of his returns for over 20 yards than Miller and , like Jones, returns kicks and punts saving a roster spot. Those are facts, not opinions.

You started pimping miller as a CB then swapped to return man when you got no support. Are you sure you're not his agent? His mom maybe?

um, no Miller is a proven return man. He looked good in his limited action in Oakland this past season and his two returns for TD's proved he still has it....despite coming back from the injury.

No, Miller is primarily a return man but could provide depth and competition at CB...which we can use. You need to read again...despite the title of the thread my arguement has always been Miller could finally give us a legit threat on ST and then we could see what he could do at a CB and let him compete for the #2 or #3 spot. Better to waste a roster spot on a returner who also plays a position that needs the competition.

Fox football? I know what Fox football is......it is letting Nick Goings, Mark Jones, Robinson etc return kicks......and that shouldn't be Carolina football.

[Sandy Claws]

um, no Miller is a proven return man. He looked good in his limited action in Oakland this past season and his two returns for TD's proved he still has it....despite coming back from the injury.

No, Miller is primarily a return man but could provide depth and competition at CB...which we can use. You need to read again...despite the title of the thread my arguement has always been Miller could finally give us a legit threat on ST and then we could see what he could do at a CB and let him compete for the #2 or #3 spot. Better to waste a roster spot on a returner who also plays a position that needs the competition.

Fox football? I know what Fox football is......it is letting Nick Goings, Mark Jones, Robinson etc return kicks......and that shouldn't be Carolina football.

Milller is no more proven than either Jones or Robinson. As I pointed out, Both those guys have more consistent production than Miller. Both would have also would have scored if they had the luxury of facing the weak AFC West Special Teams twice each. Did you know that 11 NFL teams allowed a kick-off return TD this year? All 4 AFC West teams are on that list.

Miller is ONLY a return man. He would never take the field as a CB on a Fox team. Fox expects CBs to tackle. Miller is no competition. Foxy also expects his guys to be smart enough to not get arrested the night before the draft. Miller failed that little test too.

Lastly, the philosophy is field position on ST, ball control offense, Strong FRESH D against the run, all combine to control the clock. Quick scores on ST look great but put the control of the clock in the hands of the opponent and put the D back on the field with little rest. That works against us later in the game when the other guys get to drive against a tired D for the tying score, winning score when they go against that tired D for 2 point conversions. Unless of course, you're going to convince us that this TD machine return man that you're pimping is good for multiple TDs each game.

You tried to sell him, nobody is buying. Go give it a shot on the Lions boards.

[CRA]

Milller is no more proven than either Jones or Robinson. As I pointed out, Both those guys have more consistent production than Miller. Both would have also would have scored if they had the luxury of facing the weak AFC West Special Teams twice each. Did you know that 11 NFL teams allowed a kick-off return TD this year? All 4 AFC West teams are on that list.

Miller is a pro bowl return man and has better production than both. This past season was Miller's worst statistical year and he still had better production than either those two had at KRs in their careers. That is a fact! Miller has taken kicks for scores every year except for his season injured vs. zero career returns for either of our guys. I see, so since Miller returned kicks for TDs against the Patriots and Chargers this past season that is a negative but since Mark Jones can't beat a kicker it is just another gold star to add to his collection? We have luxury of playing some pretty bad teams this past season also, too bad they had kickers that stayed on the field to tackle Jones.

also, Jones is ONLY an averge return man. Nothing more to bring. Also, he only has one year on his resume at being an average return man.

only thing I'm selling is we need to address our return game. If you ain't buying that, then you don't watch much football. With the improved blocking and play we saw last year, we should have gotten much more out of our return game than we did. I have repeatedly stated it doesn't matter if they don't go after Miller to me as long as they go after a legit returner. Fox's philosophy the past several seasons on finding a returner have been horrible.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

CB is fine, forget it. They were exposed when the defensive line totally broke down. In our scheme and our new one, we count on the defensive line to get ALL of the pass rush. When they don't, we get what we see...

:iagree:

[Mr. Scot]

Miller returned kicks not punts. Jones does both resulting in a spare roster spot for a kick-off specialist (2 kickers).

Miller averaged .8 yard/return more than Jones. I guess it's only significant when it's for your side of the debate. Your statement was that Jones was avaerage at best. I proved you wrong with facts. Now you state it repeatedly as an opinion./

Jones had a 20 yard return 27 out of 40 times. That's 67.5% of the time. Miller was 19 out of 32 or 59.2%. That means Miller had 1 big return to boost his average.

Miller also had a fumble. Jones had none.

Pimp him all you want. I'd take Jones over him. You're too caught up in 1 or 2 plays that made highlights. jones is far more consistent.

All valid, but technically Miller provides depth at two spots (corner and return man) and could conceivably occupy a similar special teams role as someone like Dante Wesley.

I'd be in favor of bringing him in, not as a replacement for Mark Jones (who admittedly isn't actually on roster right now) but as depth.

[Sandy Claws]

All valid, but technically Miller provides depth at two spots (corner and return man) and could conceivably occupy a similar special teams role as someone like Dante Wesley.

I'd be in favor of bringing him in, not as a replacement for Mark Jones (who admittedly isn't actually on roster right now) but as depth.

Fox will never have a CB who can't tackle. As a return man, he's not significantly better than either Jones or Robinson. AND his off field baggage eliminates any possiblility that he lands here.

[CRA]

Fox will never have a CB who can't tackle. As a return man, he's not significantly better than either Jones or Robinson. AND his off field baggage eliminates any possiblility that he lands here.

again, your now comparing Jones/Robinson to a Pro Bowl and All Pro return man who has and does make huge plays. Robinson was medicore AT BEST his year and Jones was average. That is a reach.

[Sandy Claws]

Miller was a pro bowl return man 1 year and has better production than both by some measures but was not consistent. This past season was Miller's worst statistical year indicating he migh be on the decline and he still had better production by some measures but was not consistent as either those two had at KRs in their careers. That is my CLemson Tiger loving opinion! Miller has taken kicks for scores every year except for his season injured vs. zero career returns for either of our guys which is the flashy type play that I love. Who cares about real football. I see, so since Miller returned kicks for TDs against the Patriots and Chargers this past season that is a negative but since Mark Jones can't beat a kicker (which doesn't really matter since Jones is not a Panther either) it is just another gold star to add to his collection? We have luxury of playing some pretty bad teams this past season also, too bad they had kickers that stayed on the field to tackle Jones.(which doesn't really matter since Jones is not a Panther either)

also, my opinion is Jones is ONLY an averge return man despite the fact that the stats prove otherwise. Stats only count for my side. Nothing more to bring. Also, he only has one year on his resume at being an average return man.

only thing I'm selling is we need to address our return game despite the fact that my posts are only about one Clemson Alum with a record. If you ain't buying that, then you don't understand my ignorant ramblings and misuse of stats. With the improved blocking and play we saw last year, we should have gotten much more out of our return game than we did. I have repeatedly stated it doesn't matter if they don't go after Miller to me as long as they go after a legit returner and even though the returners we used have been far more consitent with very little drop-off in average than Miller, he is legit , they are not. I think Fox's philosophy the past several seasons on finding a returner have been horrible.It's totally ridiculous that we should focus on defensive coaching staff, tagged players or other pressing needs when we could go after a KR who MIGHT score 1 TD next year and would likely improve our starting field posuition by almost 1 yard

I touched that up for you.

[Sandy Claws]

again, your now comparing Jones/Robinson to a Pro Bowl and All Pro return man who has and does make huge plays. Robinson was medicore AT BEST his year and Jones was average. That is a reach.

Click HERE

Nevermind, I already know your results.

[CRA]

Click HERE

Nevermind, I already know your results.

again, you are comparing Robinson and Jones' return ability to that of someone who is a Pro Bowl and All Pro return man. Last year was his year back from injury and he joined Oakland week 9 - in that time he had a better KR avg than Jones w/ 2 TDs.....which shows he still is an above average return man who will give a team a legit playmaker at the returner position.

You are either a Gamecock fan or you simply don't watch football outside of Carolina and there medicore returners the past few seasons. Seriously, who on Earth would say Jones and Robinson were similar to guys of his caliber in the return game? Not wanting him in Carolina is fine, but claiming that is just beyond dumb.

[southcakalac]

Geez this thread is still alive?? Give it up already.

[Sandy Claws]

again, you are comparing Robinson and Jones' return ability to that of someone who is a Pro Bowl and All Pro return man. Last year was his year back from injury and he joined Oakland week 9 - in that time he had a better KR avg than Jones w/ 2 TDs.....which shows he still is a slightly above average return man exacltly like Jones with almost a whole yard better return average but fumbles more, does not produce adequate returns as consistently, and comes with off field baggage but might give a team a legit playmaker at the returner position if he can continue to get the benefit of playing against weak STs who slip a lot.

You are either a Gamecock fan or you simply don't watch football outside of Carolina and there medicore returners the past few seasons. Seriously, who on Earth would say Jones and Robinson were similar to guys of his caliber in the return game? Not wanting him in Carolina is fine, but claiming that is just beyond dumb.

Touched up that first paragraph for you.

I'm not a Gamecock fan and I never said we shouldn't upgrade the return game if an acceptable option were available. Miller is not an acceptable option at returner and he's not an NFL CB especially in a defense that expects CBs to tackle.

PS. Here something for you. Since you're so big on Miller, explain why the Jets return average went up almost 2 yards/return after they dumped him.

[Sandy Claws]

Geez this thread is still alive?? Give it up already.

SHHH

I'm having fun with the idiotic Clemson (Yeah, I know, redundant) fan.