The biggest mistake JR can make is leaving $$ on the table.

[rayzor]

fwiw, just saw this tweet by jim irsay (owner of colts)

JimIrsay We didn't make a NFL record 9 straight playoff births with bad cap management n dumb signings of other people's problems,we like 2 pay r own

granted, they have the luxury of having the best (arguably) QB in the game or ever, still...they have a point. may not the best solution for everyone but you can't argue with the results there. pats are of the same ilk. rarely do they make a big splash in FA.

[Montsta]

In his interview today he said the next step is extending current players. He didn't say anything about going after more free agents.

We could end up in a situation where we have cap room left and we didn't sign any big names.

Overspending on a bunch of contracts is not good if you don't fill all the holes.

We need a CB, a QB a RG. I hope we don't sign a bunch of no-names and leave $8M in cap.

Especially after we were one of the cheapest teams in the league last year with the worst record.

No matter how good Cam and Rivera and Olindo Mare are you can't make a 2-14 team into a playoff contender without some more pieces.

Just my opinion.

You don't seem like a very Happy Panther.

[rayzor]

You don't seem like a very Happy Panther.

he rarely does.

[Happy Panther]

You don't seem like a very Happy Panther.

he rarely does.

Give me a reason and I'll be they guy cheering the loudest.

[Happy Panther]

Overspending on unworthy players is much worse than leaving money on the table.

The highly active FA spenders almost always flop......not sure why anyone would want to follow that model.

So overspend on worthy players.

There are plenty out there.

[Brooklyn Bully]

Sigh, didn't look like brucebrewski's comment was saying we've got a shot of being great. he just said that we don't have 2-14 talent, just like you said. no mention of playoffs was made until you said it.

saying that we are/could be improving this year isn't being a homer and it isn't saying we are going to the playoffs.

Oh, you know it's coming rayzor. It does every off-season. Pretty soon we'll start seeing the posts predicting 9-11 wins for this team.

[Brooklyn Bully]

fwiw, just saw this tweet by jim irsay (owner of colts)

granted, they have the luxury of having the best (arguably) QB in the game or ever, still...they have a point. may not the best solution for everyone but you can't argue with the results there. pats are of the same ilk. rarely do they make a big splash in FA.

Yeah, when you have the best QBs in the league you don't need to make a splash. We don't, nor have we ever. If you want to build through the Draft, fine, go ahead. But warn yourself that there is NO guarantee that all your young players you pick will pan out (hi, LaFell! hi, Gettis!). You know what WILL pan out? A proven player. The key is to sign proven talent AND build through the Draft. We sign mediocre talent and build through the Draft without a star at QB and that's why we've never had back to back winning seasons. We're not a contender.

[Crixtala]

are you already saying that Gettis and LaFell haven't panned out?

[rayzor]

Oh, you know it's coming rayzor. It does every off-season. Pretty soon we'll start seeing the posts predicting 9-11 wins for this team.

after last year, i doubt it. might be a couple here and there, but most know the reality of the situation. i haven't seen many among even the most optimistic who believe we will even break .500.

excitement in training camp might get people more optimistic, but all the hate for divisional rivals won't cover up the fact that the saints and falcons still have offenses that can bury us and the bucs have a very solid balanced team and even with all the improvements that have been made we are still a team coming off a 2-14 record. only in a weak division would we have a real shot at the playoffs. we could split with the other NFCS teams, but still fall pretty short of the playoffs. we just have a tough schedule coming up.

i'm just expecting to see a lot of growth in the team and players and closer games with a few more wins and i think that you will find the vast majority of people feel the same way.

[Sword]

I'm sure the Panthers might get someone, but in reality FA is just as much of a crapshoot as rookies..sure you may think they are proven..but that is with different coaches and different schemes..remember when we thought Landon Johnson would be great for us?

[rayzor]

Yeah, when you have the best QBs in the league you don't need to make a splash. We don't, nor have we ever. If you want to build through the Draft, fine, go ahead. But warn yourself that there is NO guarantee that all your young players you pick will pan out (hi, LaFell! hi, Gettis!). You know what WILL pan out? A proven player. The key is to sign proven talent AND build through the Draft. We sign mediocre talent and build through the Draft without a star at QB and that's why we've never had back to back winning seasons. We're not a contender.

there's no guarantee any player will pan out. you've got to have a balanced approach, but with the emphasis being on building through the draft. use FA and trades to fill holes left by draft picks that didn't work out.

you bringing up WRs in talking about proven players had me thinking about a discussion a year ago about WRs playing with teams other than the ones who drafted them taking a dive in production.

i posted this...

One of the things i remember seeing that hurney talked about on the radio a couple days ago was his reasoning for not going after a WR in free agency. he said that WRs typically do their best with the team that drafted them. part of me thought that was just an excuse but i thought there might be some validity to it. i did a little digging (very little) and this is what i saw.

i looked at the top 20 WRs from the past 5 years to see who showed up and how many teams they had been with.

(if there isn't a number beside them it's their original team)

'09:

andre johnson, randy moss (3rd), miles austin, larry fitzgerald, reggie wayne, roddy white, sidney rice, brandon marshall, steve smith (NYG), marques colston, wes welker (2nd), chad 85, santonio holmes

'08:

fitz, andre johnson, calvin johnson, greg jennings, roddy white, steve smith (Car), boldin, antonio bryant (4th), randy moss (3rd), TO (3rd), lance moore, vincent jackson, reggie wayne, hines ward, dwayne bowe, santana moss (2nd), bernard berrian, kevin walter, wes welker (2nd)

'07:

randy moss (3rd), TO (3rd), braylon edwards, wayne, fitz, chad 85, housh, colston, burress (2nd), marshall, welker (2nd), jennings, holt, roddy white, bobby engram, kevin curtis (2nd), holmes, smitty, boldin, derrick mason (2nd),

'06:

marvin harrison, TO (3rd), wayne, chad 85, holt, lee evans, roy williams, donald driver, smitty, housh, burress (2nd), javon walker, darrell jackson, colston, joey galloway (2nd), laverneus coles (3rd (well, technically but he started out with jets, moved to redskins, then went back to jets...not that it matters)), andre johnson, mike furrey(2nd), boldin, terry glenn (3rd)

'05:

smitty, santana moss (2nd), fitz, chad 85, galloway (2nd), holt, harrison, boldin, chris chambers, hines ward, burress (2nd), glenn (3rd) driver, randy moss (2nd), rod smith, keenan mccardell (3rd), eddie kennison (5th), jimmy smith, housh, donte stallworth

last year there were 2 in the top 20 from multiple teams, in '08: 5, in '07: 6, in '06: 7, and in '05: 7.

a couple things i noticed from those is that there were only 14 out of 50 players in the past 5 years who were in the top 20 after being with a team that they didn't start out with. also i noticed that many players that had been listed in the top 20 disappeared form it once they went to another team...even if they had shown up a couple times in the list.

there's probably more that you could draw from this but i have to admit , there might be something to what hurney said. i dont like that we didn't go after someone like boldin or housh but the success rate for players who leave their original team isn't all that good.

btw...might not be the conclusive top 20 list but that doesn't matter, it's more the sample i was looking at of 20 of the best WRs from those years. i used the rankings from fftoday.com in case you're curious. you could probably take any top 20 WR list from those years and find about the same results.

many players will work hard to get that 2nd contract and then drop off and you can see it all around. does that mean you should avoid those "proven" players? nope...but you want to be just as careful in selecting them as you are in drafting, probably moreso because of the $$ involved.

one big danger in going after a proven player is that he now has nothing left to prove. he got his big contract. as safe as it might seem, i think the best cases are finding players with something to prove. usually more loyal and more cost effective. if you are trying to build a complete team, being cost effective has to be a huge consideration.

i would love to bring in a top talent or two among the CBs and DTs, but i won't be upset if we don't as long as we find someone who is starting caliber to come in and buy us some time till we can find someone more reliable and effective long term.

[Happy Panther]

one big danger in going after a proven player is that he now has nothing left to prove. he got his big contract.

Would this apply to D-Will and Charles Johnson?

How is it different when signing your own players to big contracts?

Honest question.

[rayzor]

Would this apply to D-Will and Charles Johnson?

How is it different when signing your own players to big contracts?

Honest question.

thats a risk as well, but at least the organization has the benefit of actually getting to know these guys beforehand.

you take someone off another team's roster and all you have are opinions about the guy that may or may not have an agenda behind them. it's just a safer risk to make, but still a risk.

one thing i will say that as much as it seems like we are keeping the same guys, we are seeing a lot more shakeup in personnel than we did in typical fox years. fox was massively risk averse and bypassed far too many opportunities in FA. dude wouldn't start anyone who wasn't proven commodities by his standards regardless of how much they held back the team or how talented the person was behind them on the depth chart.

this team has been incredibly bold the last couple years in both cuts and acquisitions. far cry from the risk averse fox years.

[mj4life]

The Packers and Steelers build via the draft and make relatively small waves in free agency.

The Lombardi trophy seems to approve.

have anyone ever noticed that most free agents that leave the steelers never do jack with their new teams but look like studs in black& gold