Pats trade Cassel to Chiefs not Bucs

[scpanther22]

Don't have to worry about Thigpen either.

Tyler Thigpen is expected to enter 2009 as a backup to Matt Cassel.Perhaps the Chiefs will declare a quarterback competition, but we doubt it. Either way, Scott Pioli didn't acquire Matt Cassel to sit the bench. He watched Thigpen's accuracy and turnover problems and rightly decided Thigpen was a quality backup, not a franchise quarterback. Thigpen's contract runs out after 2010, so he doesn't have much fantasy potential until then.

jake 2.0...lol but i like him and i like what he did in KC you dont have be a great QB to lead the panthers...we know this first hand.so the whole thigpen is not a good QB thing does not matter seeing as we dont require one to hand the ball off and play action.

[kiimo]

Greetings, Carolina fans. Great year last year up until the end. My thanks to many of you for your input last offseason as I drafted and rode DeAngelo Williams to my fantasy championship. So thanks for that.

Chiefs fan here, and I'm over on this board to help guide you all away from the foolishness and silly notions about Tyler Thigpen I've been seeing posted in this thread.

Let me explain a couple things to you about Tyler Thigpen.

First, Tyler Thigpen has NEVER played in any system other than a spread. The Chiefs attempted to insert him at the beginning of the year when Brodie Croyle was injured by a stiff breeze to play a pro-style offense.

The results were DISASTEROUS. Like Ryan Leaf-level abortion. What in the world were the Chiefs going to do? Since nobody but Chiefs fans saw how poorly he played this is not getting a lot of mention and has fallen outside of the collective consciousness of football fans.

Out of desperation, the Chiefs employed a spread system in order to help Thigpen along. Rather than teach him to play a normal offense, which let's not forget took Drew Brees (another spread QB) three years to learn, they just said okay we'll just play him out of the shotgun.

All the time.

Do you understand what this does? It eliminates your run game. It eliminates your goal line play. It lets the defense tee off on your quarterback. You can't manage games. Playaction is dead. They were trying to hand off to Larry Johnson from shotgun all game.

Tyler Thigpen had success but the Chiefs kept losing games because other teams would go into halftime and say "welp these retards are running nothing but the spread." and make an adjustment and then crush the Chiefs in the second half.

All that being said, even WITH the spread Tyler Thigpen was wildly inconsistent. The worse thing is, he's inaccurate. He had Tony Gonzalez, who can catch anything. He would routinely, in space with nobody around him, throw to Gonzalez who was five to ten yards open in front of him and TG would have to like, dive to catch the ball. It happened constantly.

You guys, I understand the pain of Delhomme, I really do. But you don't want Thigpen. Trust me, you don't want him. Look up his stats of the first three games he played in before the Chiefs ran the spread. Terrible. He's a fine backup who can come in and win some games but as a game manager, he just doesn't have the tools. You would have to wait years before he could be considered a legitimate quarterback in the NFL. Hope this helps.

[carpanfan96]

here's an interesting nugget of information of what could have been.

from rotoworld.

Cutler's unhappy about this.

Before the Pats traded Cassel to the Chiefs, the Bucs, Lions, and Broncos became entwined in the talks. Tampa called Denver about a three-way deal that would have sent Cassel to the Broncos and Cutler to the Bucs. The Lions also knocked on Denver's door about Cutler with Cassel as potential bait, but the Broncos turned down both offers after "entertaining the notion." Schefter was clear that the Broncos only fielded calls and did not instigate talks.

[carpanfan96]

Greetings, Carolina fans. Great year last year up until the end. My thanks to many of you for your input last offseason as I drafted and rode DeAngelo Williams to my fantasy championship. So thanks for that.

Chiefs fan here, and I'm over on this board to help guide you all away from the foolishness and silly notions about Tyler Thigpen I've been seeing posted in this thread.

Let me explain a couple things to you about Tyler Thigpen.

First, Tyler Thigpen has NEVER played in any system other than a spread. The Chiefs attempted to insert him at the beginning of the year when Brodie Croyle was injured by a stiff breeze to play a pro-style offense.

The results were DISASTEROUS. Like Ryan Leaf-level abortion. What in the world were the Chiefs going to do? Since nobody but Chiefs fans saw how poorly he played this is not getting a lot of mention and has fallen outside of the collective consciousness of football fans.

Out of desperation, the Chiefs employed a spread system in order to help Thigpen along. Rather than teach him to play a normal offense, which let's not forget took Drew Brees (another spread QB) three years to learn, they just said okay we'll just play him out of the shotgun.

All the time.

Do you understand what this does? It eliminates your run game. It eliminates your goal line play. It lets the defense tee off on your quarterback. You can't manage games. Playaction is dead. They were trying to hand off to Larry Johnson from shotgun all game.

Tyler Thigpen had success but the Chiefs kept losing games because other teams would go into halftime and say "welp these retards are running nothing but the spread." and make an adjustment and then crush the Chiefs in the second half.

All that being said, even WITH the spread Tyler Thigpen was wildly inconsistent. The worse thing is, he's inaccurate. He had Tony Gonzalez, who can catch anything. He would routinely, in space with nobody around him, throw to Gonzalez who was five to ten yards open in front of him and TG would have to like, dive to catch the ball. It happened constantly.

You guys, I understand the pain of Delhomme, I really do. But you don't want Thigpen. Trust me, you don't want him. Look up his stats of the first three games he played in before the Chiefs ran the spread. Terrible. He's a fine backup who can come in and win some games but as a game manager, he just doesn't have the tools. You would have to wait years before he could be considered a legitimate quarterback in the NFL. Hope this helps.

Then how does this make you feel?

With Cassel the Chiefs will likely incorporate a pass-first, shotgun-heavy offense. This is great news for Dwayne Bowe and company. From rotoworld.

[kiimo]

That's fine. I'm excited for this as long as that is not all they can do. Look it is like a basketball team that relies on the three. Sure you'll win games but if that is all you can do you will ultimately lose.

[carpanfan96]

That's fine. I'm excited for this as long as that is not all they can do. Look it is like a basketball team that relies on the three. Sure you'll win games but if that is all you can do you will ultimately lose.

he wasn't very successful running plays from behind center. Though they could work on that. They did use pa passes from behind center though (with seven and eight man protection schemes.)

[carpanfan96]

That's fine. I'm excited for this as long as that is not all they can do. Look it is like a basketball team that relies on the three. Sure you'll win games but if that is all you can do you will ultimately lose.

Here's a nice breakdown on Cassel. Here's some Highlights from the article. key points are highlighted in bold for you.

Early in the season the Patriots ran a conventional NFL offense, with Cassel primarily aligned under center. They used the shotgun only as an occasional changeup or, as many teams do, in long-yardage situations.

It became evident Cassel was not particularly comfortable dropping back from center. He often seemed rushed and hurried, with a tendency to quickly lose his reading definition. That's why he ran so frequently. He was not seeing the field with clarity, and his instincts compelled him to leave the pocket whether it was necessary or not.

He was very mechanical and robotic in his progressions and reads. If he could determine his throw based on the pre-snap read, he made it. If he couldn't, and he had to process information as he dropped, he struggled. As a result, he did not show a lot of patience in the pocket, often moving directly into the pass rush. That's the main reason Cassel was sacked so often in the first half of the season.

In addition, Cassel wasn't demonstrating the willingness to pull the trigger on tighter throws at the intermediate and deeper levels. Those are the kinds of plays that work off five- and seven-step drops with the quarterback under center.

What the Patriots learned as the season progressed was that Cassel was far more comfortable and relaxed playing in the shotgun. Their overtime loss to the Jets in mid-November solidified that belief. The Patriots fell behind 24-6 in the second quarter, and from that point on, Cassel was exclusively in the shotgun.

That defeat was the first of six consecutive games in which 88 percent of Cassel's pass attempts came out of the shotgun. The shotgun spread, often with three wide receivers, stretched the field horizontally.

It was predominantly a short passing game, with the throw defined quickly and the ball coming out fast.

Cassel had more rhythm to his drop and set from the shotgun. He was poised and comfortable, and he saw the field with more clarity. This led to more patience in the pocket, with less of a willingness to take off and run prematurely.

The other critical element that resulted from the widespread use of the shotgun was the functional space it provided Cassel in the pocket. There was more immediate distance between Cassel and the bodies in front of him, and that gave him room to step up and deliver.

Cassel is not an efficient passer when the pocket gets "muddied" or constricted. The velocity of his throws, slightly above average at best, decreases dramatically when he lacks that functional space.

In the last seven weeks of the season, the Patriots were primarily a shotgun passing team. They did not call a lot of drop-back plays. Why? Because Cassel was simply not very good at it.

When the Patriots wanted to get the ball deeper down the field, they put Cassel under center and went play-action. In those situations, they always used seven- or eight-man protection schemes to make certain Cassel had time and space. The emphasis on play-action also helped Cassel because it is almost always an either/or read; you throw the ball based on the positioning and movement of one defender, usually one of the safeties.

[kiimo]

Okay I get it. Cassel has the same kind of problems that Thigpen has. That isn't my point though, this isn't about Cassel it is about Thigpen. I mean obviously Pioli and Haley took a long hard look at Thigpen, Stafford and Sanchez and ultimately decided that Cassel would be better. He does seem more accurate, but again I came here to warn you about Thigpen.

Maybe I went about this wrong. You know what? Thigpen will be awesome, please give us a draft pick for him. He will guide you to the superbowl under his precision-passing wing.

[User Name]

I think this is going to be a continuing trend, with so many college programs going to the spread many QB's coming out will have never played as a drop back.

The NFL game has already began to move away from the pro-set and I expect in another 5-10 years the hybrid spread will be the standard set.

[Fiz]

The NFL game has already began to move away from the pro-set and I expect in another 5-10 years the hybrid spread will be the standard set.

by then the defense will have responded again

it's already starting to happen with the emphasis and market for defensive linemen

[User Name]

Okay I get it. Cassel has the same kind of problems that Thigpen has. That isn't my point though, this isn't about Cassel it is about Thigpen. I mean obviously Pioli and Haley took a long hard look at Thigpen, Stafford and Sanchez and ultimately decided that Cassel would be better. He does seem more accurate, but again I came here to warn you about Thigpen.

Maybe I went about this wrong. You know what? Thigpen will be awesome, please give us a draft pick for him. He will guide you to the superbowl under his precision-passing wing.

Cassel is probably an upgrade over Thigpen, it's hard to judge though because Cassel was on a far superior team. Thigpen could had looked awfully good playing behind the Patriots line throwing to Welker, and Moss, Cassel could have been average playing for the Chifs who knows.

Either way y'all only gave a 2nd for Cassel, he's worth that. You came out just fine and at worst you have two guys who can run the hybrid spread that KC wants to employ.

[User Name]

by then the defense will have responded again

it's already starting to happen with the emphasis and market for defensive linemen

I agree it's a cat and mouse game, but the speed game is here to stay, and the hybrid spread is probably the future.

[Fiz]

I agree it's a cat and mouse game, but the speed game is here to stay, and the hybrid spread is probably the future.

as evidenced by the speed oriented offenses of recent super bowl winners new york and pittsburgh

[User Name]

I guess 5-10 years didn't register.......

And Both of those teams as well as the most dominate team of this decade the Patriots run some elements of the spread.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/82514-the-spread-offense-coming-to-an-nfl-franchise-near-you