Mort on SC: Talks Regress, Owners Going "Retro" on Money Issue

[Panthercougar68]

My biggest fear is something that would them take 50 steps back after taking 30 steps forward.

[carpanfan96]

it got better. they stayed late last night. wouldn't have happened if they weren't getting anywhere. if things were stalled they would have just left.

Figured it was just a fake leak then damage control by the other party. Lmao these talks are just stupid.

[rayzor]

better picture of where the problems are by michael silver

(owners issues are in blue, players in red)

Late Thursday afternoon, after another frustrating interchange between the two negotiating teams at a Minneapolis-area law firm that ultimately lasted past midnight, it was clear that labor peace – and an end to the lockout imposed by the owners on March 12 – won’t be achieved anywhere close to as seamlessly as numerous reports in recent weeks have suggested. Not only is the very definition of total revenue being debated, but each side also believes the other has tried to manipulate the negotiation process in its favor, and any semblance of trust has all but disappeared.

A little more than two months before the scheduled start of the 2011 regular season, the players and owners are still fighting over money, and quarreling over who deserves the brunt of the blame. One side is speaking Russian, the other Japanese, and that sense of mutual optimism once enjoyed by the NFL commissioner and NFL Players Association executive director has been lost in translation.

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I’ve talked to key figures from both camps, and others who are more neutral while familiar with the state of negotiations, and I’m still trying to figure out how what one source described as a verbal handshake between players and owners regarding a total-revenue formula earlier this month has degenerated into a montage of mutual finger-pointing.

Those on the players’ negotiating team are convinced that owners have played “bait-and-switch” games with them, belatedly asking for certain items to be excluded from the total-revenue pool after seemingly having agreed to a straight split. They view the recent wave of public optimism suspiciously, believing that owners have purposely tried to create an impression that a deal is near in order to persuade players to accept an offer in the next couple of weeks, thus ensuring that the entire preseason would be saved.

Conversely, owners continue to regard NFLPA attorneys Jeffrey Kessler and James Quinn as divisive forces intent on blowing up any prospective settlement in favor of continuing to pursue legal remedies, including the Brady v. NFL antitrust lawsuit, that could create monumental leverage for the players in the future. The owners trace recent player demands that they regard as unrealistic – i.e. an insistence upon counting sales taxes on tickets as part of total league revenue – to the two attorneys and charge that the players are the ones who’ve attempted to extract extra concessions in recent days.

The heart of the dispute remains how to split up the annual revenue pool, which in 2010 – the final year of the expired collective bargaining agreement – totaled approximately $9.3 billion. Under last year’s formula, the owners took $1 billion off the top in “expense credits,” and the players received 58 percent of the remaining money in salary distributed via a league-wide salary cap.

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Three weeks ago, shortly before that much ballyhooed Manhattan dinner between Smith and Goodell, a breakthrough occurred. Revisiting a concept they’d proposed shortly after Super Bowl XLV, the players suggested that instead of arguing over expense credits, the two sides should focus on a simple, equitable split of total, unadjusted revenue, or all revenue.

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Sources on both sides say the owners indicated a willingness to work within that general framework, and there was a sense that other remaining issues, such as a rookie wage scale, a reduction in offseason workouts and a continued desire by owners to expand the regular season to 18 games, would be settled quickly once the revenue-split was solved.

Beginning last week, however, the momentum began to evaporate. What happened? Each side gives a very different story.

The players blame the owners for suddenly insisting upon “expense credits” that would reduce the all-revenue total by a significant margin (described by one source as “several hundred million dollars”), effectively reducing their share to 45 percent.

The players also balked at the owners’ insistence that the proposed “legacy fund” to aid retired players would come out of the salary cap – essentially meaning that the players, and not the league, would be responsible for those costs. Owners also clung to the possibility of adding two games to the regular season as early as 2014, a move to which most players are adamantly opposed.

Owners, meanwhile, claim that certain expense credits were part of the “all revenue” understanding achieved earlier this month and charge that the players are the ones attempting to change the terms. They are also frustrated by players’ insistence that “all revenue” should include a share of money generated by non-football events (such as rock concerts) at team-owned stadiums.

As for the notion that government taxes on game tickets should be included as revenue under the formula, rather than taken off the top, the owners are downright aghast. They claim that such sales-tax payments were not included among the revenue split in the previous CBA and that an accounting miscalculation by Price Waterhouse Coopers, the firm which monitors the salary cap (and which was commissioned by the NFLPA to calculate projected NFL revenues during the current negotiation), has misled the players into demanding the inclusion of those dollars into the formula.

Further, owners see a direct correlation between last week’s reappearances of Kessler (who was absent for Thursday’s sessions) and Quinn in the negotiating room and the negative turn the talks have taken.

Players, meanwhile, view NFL senior vice president and general counsel Peter Rucco as a divisive force who has played games with the revenue numbers in recent days.

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Despite the recent negativity, there is cause to remain hopeful about a settlement. Unlike a few months ago, players no longer feel personally affronted by the owners, and the two sides have remained civil and professional in negotiation sessions. The relationship between Smith and Goodell has also improved, a welcome development given the frostiness that once existed between the two men. On Tuesday night they flew together to Sarasota, Fla., where Goodell – at Smith’s invitation – addressed incoming rookies the following day at a symposium staged by the NFLPA.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_nfl_labor_talks_turn_bizarre_063011&print=1

[rayzor]

couple tweets from breer about what may have saved things last night...

AlbertBreer Will say I do think Arthur Boylan seized some control last night. And this thing going into the night had Boylan's fingerprints all over it.

Albert Breer about 3m ago via Echofon

AlbertBreer ... I think, in a way, it was a message from Boylan that the battle was gonna be won at the table, not in the press, after midday leaks.

Albert Breer about 2m ago via Echofon

as a reminder, boylan is the appointed mediator.

word is he was the last to leave last night.

[carolinarolls]

It will get worked out. I am not worried. I don't want a league in which the players get more than the owners are comfortable with anyway. We all know what that situation equates to in Charlotte.

I am not blaming JR and I am not saying players are overpaid here but at the end of the day no matter what I believe, for Panther fans, if the owners don't get what they want, we will see a lot more of the same and will quickly become the Marlins of the NFL.

If you are a Panther fan and you believe what many of you have said about the top 50 or so players make the league what it is and if you don't have "stars" you are simply not competitive, you need to look at what that means here in Charlotte if the players get what they want.

I don't want to be the team that is consistently ranked below most others in the payroll department. Our fan base is too uninformed and too fragile and more seasons like last will be the beginning of the end for The "Carolina" Panthers.

[CRA]

Jerry and his pie chart......Jerry has no intention of agreeing to something just to play a full season. Jerry want his deal.

[PantherBrew]

[bleys]

this should be expected.. 90% of the deal could be agreed upon, it's the last 10% that would slow down negotiations..

[MadHatter]

The fact that the Players want to include Non-Football Revenue generated at the stadiums (concerts, etc) in the pool to be split if beyond ridiculous.

Let them flip burgers for a year....they will realize how good they really have it.

[CRA]

The fact that the Players want to include Non-Football Revenue generated at the stadiums (concerts, etc) in the pool to be split if beyond ridiculous.

Let them flip burgers for a year....they will realize how good they really have it.

yeah, that is full retard logic right there.....players got no thing to do w/ a Rolling Stones concert or whatever rolls through town.

[rayzor]

adbrandt Am told key figure in NFL talks is mediator Boylan: refocusing issues, diffusing emotions, delaying Court rulings while negotiating.

Andrew Brandt about 21m ago via web

..

[Lords0fPain]

That douche bag Smith and fugged up greedy players...yes THIS IS THE RIGHT THREAD ;)

Amazing once people get the whole story, how things change....lol

[wade]

I was actually going to make a thread posing the question as to whether this may be the worst time to be a sports fan EVER?

Then there are the numerous NCAA violations and programs being penalized in college football. The quality of play in college basketball has seen a steady decline since the mid-90s. Golf's biggest star has fallen off the map and tennis' biggest star appears to be in the twilight of his career. I guess there's always Nascar and MMA. *shudder*

[SmootsDaddy89]

God those greedy players are such dicks.

Am I doing this right?