Did Richardson set us up for success

[SCP]

JAs far as JR and what he has done, we yet to know the effect. He will look bad when there is no lockout but he will look the worst if he doesn't get this core resigned for whatever reason.

Every JR thread can be boiled down to this one point. It is a great point. JR and Marty have been shoveling this bullsh*t of building through the draft and retaining our core. They have spewed a mountain of "build through the draft/retain our core" quotes and comments over the last three years. Well, it almost time for them to put up or shut up damnit. When this CBA is finished and the rubber meets the road, Hurney and JR better follow through on this "philosophy" they've been hyping. If they stray from this hardline rhetoric and let any of our core walk, it will be clear they have been selling us a bill of goods and we will all finally know it.

[davos]

Every JR thread can be boiled down to this one point. It is a great point. JR and Marty have been shoveling this bullsh*t of building through the draft and retaining our core. They have spewed a mountain of "build through the draft/retain our core" quotes and comments over the last three years. Well, it almost time for them to put up or shut up damnit. When this CBA is finished and the rubber meets the road, Hurney and JR better follow through on this "philosophy" they've been hyping. If they stray from this hardline rhetoric and let any of our core walk, it will be clear they have been selling us a bill of goods and we will all finally know it.

A very valid point sir

[panthers55]

I think that this is a chicken little scenario on your part. It's been estimated by people more in the know than us (Steve Reed for example) that our "core" will cost approx 30-40 mil (against next years cap) to resign. To more than double that estimate without any justification comes off as paranoid.

We just need to wait and see what the new CBA entails, and when hard numbers come out then we can get an idea of what the "core" will cost.

With such widely varying numbers floating around waiting until we have some more concrete facts seems to be the wise approach.

You obviously confuse cap room with salary. It is confusing so I will explain it so you can understand it. Cap room is the salary and bonuses prorated over the live of the contract. Salary includes all the signing bonuses and guaranteed money when they are actually paid. My point is that Richardson will have to sign checks to pay the contracts when they are signed. Lets use Johnson as an example. If he is signed on a 5 years deal for 45 million dollars and 25 million of that is up front, the cap hit spread out over the 5 years will be 9 million. But Richardson will have to write the check for the 2011 salary and the 25 million. That will likely be around 32 million. That is what I said with salary. It might be 30-40 million in cap but closer to 100 million in cash. So it isn't chicken little at all, it is the difference between real money and funny money which is what the cap is.

[panthers55]

Saying he shouldn't have hired a new staff because he was already paying Fox makes no sense. He crippled him by cutting all the veterans and told him if you can't win with the veterans we will slash payroll and go with cheaper young guys all under the guise of a youth movement. He didn't let him draft his guys and handcuffed him totally. If you are going to keep him then let him coach, if you aren't then cut him loose. But don't set him up to fail and make all kind of excuses. In the scheme of things that 5 million was a drop in the bucket but set back the franchise quite a bit alienated the fans and made up the laughing stock of the league. You can't justify no matter how hard you try.

[chknwing]

wow, can you atleast wait to see how this all plays out before bashing the owner, you know, the guy that brought the nfl to charlotte. Jerry is doing what is best for the team. he could not help being out of the picture with heart issues. He left the team in what he thought were good hands. Well he was wrong, and thus removed those people. He has to do what he has to do to get the team back on track to be a competitive team. Have a little faith in ur team and ur owner.

[Guild]

Lets wait and see how it pans out. The speculation at this stage is rather pointless. I admit it is more interesting than the lockout though.

[rayzor]

Saying he shouldn't have hired a new staff because he was already paying Fox makes no sense. He crippled him by cutting all the veterans and told him if you can't win with the veterans we will slash payroll and go with cheaper young guys all under the guise of a youth movement. He didn't let him draft his guys and handcuffed him totally. If you are going to keep him then let him coach, if you aren't then cut him loose. But don't set him up to fail and make all kind of excuses. In the scheme of things that 5 million was a drop in the bucket but set back the franchise quite a bit alienated the fans and made up the laughing stock of the league. You can't justify no matter how hard you try.

it makes a lot of sense. you may not like the way it happened, but it most certainly made sense to not create a situation where you were paying for 2 HCs and their staffs.

it wasn't about screwing fox or the fans (which i think you are still just bitter for having to spend money for tickets last year).

it was about richardson trying to prepare for a year without football.

it was about fox trying to put the new staff in a better situation by not having a bunch of of hang over players from the previous coaching regime. it made perfect sense, if you are looking beyond the 2010 season, to use that year and the loophole it provided to unload players that the new coaching staff probably would have unloaded anyway.

richardson had his eyes on rebuilding, but it required a little demolition. fox's record was a casualty. nothing more. again, richardson had no idea it would get as ugly as it did. only the "prophets of doom" (or chicken littles) lucked out and got it right this time. it was bigger than 2010.

as far as setting the team back...meh. we weren't going forward with fox. how things shook out didn't put this team in much worse of a situation than it would have been if we did nothing.

the team is going to get better. things will improve. the team will win games again. fans will get over it ....or they'll move on and ultimately not be missed because they'll be replaced by new ones. fans stuck with PSLs they regret having will unload them to be bought by someone else or they'll stick around and get over it as well once the team starts winning again.

panthers a laughing stock? that will change this year. someone else will take that honor just like happens every year.

frankly, it just isn't as bad as you are making things out to be, but before you get an even bigger ulcer just give it a chance and try waiting to see what happens instead of just automatically assuming things are in the crapper. the guys running things have more of a clue than you about what is going on and have a bigger plan than you are aware of. blind faith? maybe, but it has to be better than blind distrust.

[bleys]

Saying he shouldn't have hired a new staff because he was already paying Fox makes no sense. He crippled him by cutting all the veterans and told him if you can't win with the veterans we will slash payroll and go with cheaper young guys all under the guise of a youth movement. He didn't let him draft his guys and handcuffed him totally. If you are going to keep him then let him coach, if you aren't then cut him loose. But don't set him up to fail and make all kind of excuses. In the scheme of things that 5 million was a drop in the bucket but set back the franchise quite a bit alienated the fans and made up the laughing stock of the league. You can't justify no matter how hard you try.

Fox was told if he can't win back to back seasons, he's gone. He couldn't, so he was gone. Why wouldn't JR cut the vets and prepare for a lockout when he's about to fire (or let go) his coach and hire a whole new coaching staff? teh vets weren't going to stay anyhow, and the younger guys got some much needed experience in a down year.

in the business world, this would be called the only move to make. but because it's football, a different set of expectations seem to make it easy to twist this story.

he let Fox stay and coach. He also told Fox he can go elsewhere. He didn't tie Fox's hands so much as Fox chose his destiny. He could have chosen to go elsewhere. it's totally not fair to act like Fox had no decision in all of this. and he was given a choice to coach, and it appears he didn't feel up to the gig, but he's not a bad guy for taking 6mil and not giving it his all?

Fox took a 1-15 team and turned them into a 7-9 team.. so you really believe Fox could only get 2 wins out of the talent we had on the field? young or not... 2 wins? if JR deserves to be hung, equally so does Fox...

[I am Hubby]

I was always a Foxy fan, and thought we were lucky to have him. Until I realized he was just a product of our QB play.

When Jake played well we were competitive. The same can be said for Moore.

So I say, without good QB play it matters not who you have coaching your team. With good QB play you can usually be competitive.

Now add a good coach with talent to work with, and you can be elite.

I believe we have that coach, so it is up to JR to bring in the talent. If he does we know he wants to win. If he does not, we are screwed for the foreseeable future.

Just what I think I think about this. And GOOOOO PANTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Huddler]

Our patience will pay off I promise. I think we have the formula to go all the way with Rivera

[panthers55]

wow, can you atleast wait to see how this all plays out before bashing the owner, you know, the guy that brought the nfl to charlotte. Jerry is doing what is best for the team. he could not help being out of the picture with heart issues. He left the team in what he thought were good hands. Well he was wrong, and thus removed those people. He has to do what he has to do to get the team back on track to be a competitive team. Have a little faith in ur team and ur owner.

I think the statute of limitations on how long you can use the "give him a break because he brought football to Charlotte" excuse is only 10 years. We are way beyond that.

[Ivan The Awesome]

I agree with panthers55 on his last statement.

[panthers55]

Fox was told if he can't win back to back seasons, he's gone. He couldn't, so he was gone. Why wouldn't JR cut the vets and prepare for a lockout when he's about to fire (or let go) his coach and hire a whole new coaching staff? teh vets weren't going to stay anyhow, and the younger guys got some much needed experience in a down year.

in the business world, this would be called the only move to make. but because it's football, a different set of expectations seem to make it easy to twist this story.

he let Fox stay and coach. He also told Fox he can go elsewhere. He didn't tie Fox's hands so much as Fox chose his destiny. He could have chosen to go elsewhere. it's totally not fair to act like Fox had no decision in all of this. and he was given a choice to coach, and it appears he didn't feel up to the gig, but he's not a bad guy for taking 6mil and not giving it his all?

Fox took a 1-15 team and turned them into a 7-9 team.. so you really believe Fox could only get 2 wins out of the talent we had on the field? young or not... 2 wins? if JR deserves to be hung, equally so does Fox...

You don't get rid of the veterans and gut the team and them keep the same coach and staff, you get rid of all of them at the same time. If you looking to remake the team you start over, you don't do it in stages. Keeping Fox knowing he wasn't going to be able to do the job and knowing that you are going to can him anyway totally ripped off the fans and PSl owners who paid millions to see a decent product. If the business end is to make money for himself regardless of the fans who are actually paying the bill and become the laughingstock of the league, then he did a great job.

Fox didn't know that Richardson was going to gut the team. I don't think the Panthers knew that as late as February. Otherwise you don't sign a player like Diggs to a 3 year extension in February and then cut him 2 months later. I believe they They clearly made a 180 degree turn and dumped all the veterans. I really doubt Fox knew that was going to happen particularly given that supposedly Richardson and he didn't talk. By the time he figured out what was happening many of the prime jobs were gone. Fox is loyal to a fault and thought he would stick it out. By the time he knew he was being hung out to dry and crapped on, it was too late to get out and get close to his Panthers salary. Trust me everyone who really knows football thinks Fox got the shaft and don't blame him for the debacle last year. That is why he landed in Denver as quickly as he did.

[blackcat]

There's a reason JR's a billionaire and we're all not. Man knows how to run a business and he's not only in it to make a buck, but to bring a championship to Carolina.