Rosario is a more efficient pass blocker than King...

[CatMan72]

Barnridge did not have a catch last year. However, in 09 he had 12 catches for a 20.2 yards per catch average. With a long of 55. But for the life of me I cannot remember a single one. Not sure what happened last year for him not to get a single reception, because I thought Fox and Hurney were very high on him.

Shockey, Rosario, and Barnridge sound good to me. And GOOOO PANTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I remember a really nice catch and run in the Giants game at the end of the '09 season... I think the downside to Barnidge is that he isn't much of a blocker.

[prowler2k8]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81526582/Gary-Barnidge-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Vikings-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813b6026/Gary-Barnidge-Highlight-WK-07-vs-Bills-2009?r_src=ramp

in training camp that year jake was throwing to him all the time. i thought for sure they had found something special. meanwhile jeff king was sucking it up and dropping to 3rd on the depth chart. only problem was fox/davidson and their loyalty to the older guys. when real game time came up, they went right back to their old ways.

i got no idea what happened with barnidge last year other than being yet another casualty that year of fox/davidson bad playcalling and offense.

Not to hijack the thread, I cannot, for the life of me, understand why Fox was so #@* % stubborn. Everyone figured out Fox but Fox. How a veteran HC could be comfortable with the warmed-over, ultra-conservative, and pathetically predictable playcalling we had to endure the past few years is beyond me. And someone may say, "yeah but we had no problem with the playcalling in 2008...." But after getting embarrased by Arizona in the playoffs, you would think Fox would've at least tweeked the offense playcalling to be more competitive.

Fox was a player's coach and a nice guy, by all accounts, and I'm appreciative of what he did for us taking us to a couple of NFCGs and a Super Bowl. But words cannot express how glad I am that his conservative philosophy is now another teams' problem. /rant

Back to the thread, I'm looking forward to seeing what Barnidge and Rosario can do in this new offensive system.

[CRA]

Not to hijack the thread, I cannot, for the life of me, understand why Fox was so #@* % stubborn. Everyone figured out Fox but Fox. How a veteran HC could be comfortable with the warmed-over, ultra-conservative, and pathetically predictable playcalling we had to endure the past few years is beyond me. And someone may say, "yeah but we had no problem with the playcalling in 2008...." But after getting embarrased by Arizona in the playoffs, you would think Fox would've at least tweeked the offense playcalling to be more competitive.

Fox was a player's coach and a nice guy, by all accounts, and I'm appreciative of what he did for us taking us to a couple of NFCGs and a Super Bowl. But words cannot express how glad I am that his conservative philosophy is now another teams' problem. /rant

Back to the thread, I'm looking forward to seeing what Barnidge and Rosario can do in this new offensive system.

Fox was stubborn b/c if you gave him what he wanted.......and his team stayed healthy.......his formula pretty much worked enough of the time to have a competitive team. He was flawed. But a healthy Fox team was pretty good. BORING and easy to figure out but it worked.

[jtm]

Not sure where that came from because Rosario has made plenty of catches for the Panthers.:rolleyes5:

Since being with the Panthers he has averaged 20 catches a year and 223 yards. That is a measly 1 catch a game and 14 yards. Say whatever you want, but I refuse to go into a 5th year saying "this is Rosario's break-out year." I hope it is his break-out year, but I have turned that page.

[pantherfan49]

He is a never ending tease. Tons of talent, just can't quite put it all together.

[jks85]

No, but it is interesting that their analysis shows Rosario as a significantly better pass blocking TE than King AND the 4th best in the league over a period of 3 seasons... I don't think most people expected to see that (including the author himself)

the way they grade is so weird though, at least as i understand it (perhaps it has changed). their idea of noting and aggregating positive/negative contributions is a good idea in theory, but they don't even weight contributions which gives you weird things like antoine winfield being an elite cb because he tackles the best (just an example. idk what he was this year but in the past they had him rated very highly).

it's tough to grade w/o knowing roles obv, but in particular it seems extremely difficult to evaluate blocking if you lack complete knowledge of the protection scheme. potential for misattribution errors all over the place

[Planiversal]

the way they grade is so weird though, at least as i understand it (perhaps it has changed). their idea of noting and aggregating positive/negative contributions is a good idea in theory, but they don't even weight contributions which gives you weird things like antoine winfield being an elite cb because he tackles the best (just an example. idk what he was this year but in the past they had him rated very highly).

it's tough to grade w/o knowing roles obv, but in particular it seems extremely difficult to evaluate blocking if you lack complete knowledge of the protection scheme. potential for misattribution errors all over the place

winfield single handedly broke the game when the vikings beat us in 08, i can still see him taking that game.

[I am Hubby]

Since being with the Panthers he has averaged 20 catches a year and 223 yards. That is a measly 1 catch a game and 14 yards. Say whatever you want, but I refuse to go into a 5th year saying "this is Rosario's break-out year." I hope it is his break-out year, but I have turned that page.

Once again I am more than a little confused about your comments. It is extremely difficult to have a "Break-out year" when the position you play is a minor component in the offense.

It is extremely hard to rack up stats when you do not get the ball.

Rosario is a product of Foxy and Davidson. The TE was never a priority with them. If you want to downplay his value, you have to look to the coaching staff not your heart.

That said, I know Chud likes the TE. So maybe Rosario will finally get the attention he deserves. It will not be a "Break-out year", because he has already shown he can play. It will be a "Finally year" because he will finally be

given an opportunity to showcase his talent.

Anyway, GOOOOO PANTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jks85]

i didn't say winfield was bad or something, i said he wasn't elite. vulnerable in coverage, esp on deeper routes and really has to be in zone

edit: also a team that runs the ball a lot, winfield obv has a little extra value against us. roll coverage to smith and he can do his thing against the run

[jtm]

Once again I am more than a little confused about your comments. It is extremely difficult to have a "Break-out year" when the position you play is a minor component in the offense.

It is extremely hard to rack up stats when you do not get the ball.

Rosario is a product of Foxy and Davidson. The TE was never a priority with them. If you want to downplay his value, you have to look to the coaching staff not your heart.

That said, I know Chud likes the TE. So maybe Rosario will finally get the attention he deserves. It will not be a "Break-out year", because he has already shown he can play. It will be a "Finally year" because he will finally be

given an opportunity to showcase his talent.

Anyway, GOOOOO PANTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess time will tell but I think a lot of people are holding out hope with marginal players because "Fox didn't give them a chance, etc." Reality is we had a lot of years where our offense was very productive. The fact that Rosario has had 4 years to beat our Jeff King and he is unable to do that says a lot.

I understand that the TE position was not heavily utilized in our offense, but I honestly think that was based a lot on the fact that we don't have any great tight ends; just a bunch of average ones. Wesley Walls was very successful in Carolina, albeit under a different regime, but under a very similar offense.

Fox is not as bad of a coach as everyone all of a sudden claims. The fact is Rosario has been given many opportunities and he has squandered all of them. I have never seen a TE drop so many passes. This is why he could never beat out King. Every year starts out the same - Rosario starts and show signs of hope and after 4-5 games starts losing reps to King and ends up by midseason taking the back seat. Again, I hope he turns into Antonio Gates, but don't hold your breath.

[I am Hubby]

probably a healthy combo of Fox not involving TEs much and Clausen not being able to throw over the middle.

Clausen completed 11 balls to the middle of the field w/ an average of 2.96 yards per pass (checkdowns).

That meshes with my memory exactly. It was like he looked at option 1, and if that was not there, his internal clock told him to get rid of the ball. If the play was outside he threw the ball away. If the play was toward the middle of the field he would dump it off.

My recolection of Jimmy last year was a QB that did not want to make a mistake, as opposed to a QB that did want to make plays. He just did not appear to be having any fun, that it was all just such a chore.

As a Michigan State man, I did not want him to begin with. He had never done anything to win me over, which makes how he played last so hard to take. The Panther fan inside me wanted him to succeed. Yet the Spartan fan wanted him to fall on his face. The problem lies in the fact that I found no satisfaction from him doing the latter. I was more consumed by the trials the team faced, with injuries and bad play to name 2, than how he played. It was weird to root for him, but my allegiance to the Panthers outweighed my distain for him.

My problem lies in the fact that although I might not be a Clausen fan, I at least try and calm my thinking by thinking of him as a Panther. And because he is a Panther, I temper my feelings for the individual, for the thrill, or otherwise, of the team. The people that are hating on Cam seem to be taking things very personally. Like Cam somehow dissed them to their face, or did unthinkable things to a loved one. I was under the illusion that the number one rule of being a fan was to support the team? And last I knew Cam was part of the team. Sorry for the rant.

With luck we will not see Clausen on the field this year anyway. And GOOO PANTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jtm]

Iamhubby, you do understand that in one post you say "how can you judge Rosario based on the coaching staff he had to work with," then in the next breath say "hopefully we will not see any Clausen this year."

I hope to not see much of Clausen either, but not really fair to cast him away after only one year with the incompetent coaching staff as you say, then give Rosario another chance after he has had 4 years under the same coaching staff. Not trying to argue, but my point is average players don't normally become great just because they have a new coaching staff. Chud didn't go after Shockey because he was convinced we had the talent at TE.

[KSpan]

...I think the other good news for Rosario is that Rivera remembers him quite well, LOL

Hey look - it's D.J. Hackett!

[bleys]

Iamhubby, you do understand that in one post you say "how can you judge Rosario based on the coaching staff he had to work with," then in the next breath say "hopefully we will not see any Clausen this year."

valid point.