adam shaefter "small owner war brewing against CBA deal"

[X-Clown]

I have an issue with supporting players over a team as well. I guess I am old school. And you are right smartphones make it easier to track things on the internet but I would still much prefer to use the computer as opposed to squinting to read my phone screen

Never can get my smart phone to do anything in terms of Internet service inside of the stadium anyway.

[panthers55]

I think Jerry is the one in charge and nothing suggests he is one of them owners willing to compromise just to play football at this point. He has been very clear during this process of what owners need here.....and right now they don't have what Jerry has preached on ( and he has been that voice not a small group of other teams).

Name 10 teams based on your criteria that are a smaller market than Carolina or as may as you can. In the NFL world, Carolina is a small market team. Carolina isn't one of the 4 smallest but they lean that way vs the other direction......

There are small market teams in relationship to population and then there are small market teams in terms of publicity or notoriety in the NFL. If Charlotte is the 18th largest city in the country. Assuming that the franchises are located ih the most populous cities and that New York has 2 franchises, there are least 10 franchises in cities smaller than Charlotte. On the other hand teams like Green Bay are in small markets but with a perpetual waiting list and a storied franchise, they can be profitable with the current model or one that has to be more skewed in favor of the owners. It is really a matter of how much the owners wanted back, and what they may have to settle for at this point if you want football. And at 9 billion dollars, they all want football.

The Panthers are profitable and will be for some time, Jerry is leading the discussion and will try to work something out that all sides can live with and owners can get behind. He wants an agreement that works for a number of years and makes the league and the owners all happy. Obviously, the players have to be okay with it as well.

[Highlandfire]

Anyone not think cheap assed Ralph wilson would be screaming? He has been the worst/ cheapest owner in NFL History and that franchise will continue to suck till the old man passes away. I say blow him and a couple of the other cheap asses off and get the deal done.

[Niner National]

There are small market teams in relationship to population and then there are small market teams in terms of publicity or notoriety in the NFL. If Charlotte is the 18th largest city in the country. Assuming that the franchises are located ih the most populous cities and that New York has 2 franchises, there are least 10 franchises in cities smaller than Charlotte. On the other hand teams like Green Bay are in small markets but with a perpetual waiting list and a storied franchise, they can be profitable with the current model or one that has to be more skewed in favor of the owners. It is really a matter of how much the owners wanted back, and what they may have to settle for at this point if you want football. And at 9 billion dollars, they all want football.

The Panthers are profitable and will be for some time, Jerry is leading the discussion and will try to work something out that all sides can live with and owners can get behind. He wants an agreement that works for a number of years and makes the league and the owners all happy. Obviously, the players have to be okay with it as well.

When they rank the markets, they are ranking the media market size, not the city population. Charlotte is 18th in population, but is 24th in media market size.

The Panthers are disadvantaged financially vs other teams. Our stadium is in uptown meaning the team does not get any revenue from parking. The teams that own their own parking lots are getting 20-100 dollars per car for 20-30,000 vehicles. That is a lot of money the Panthers cannot collect.

[panthers55]

When they rank the markets, they are ranking the media market size, not the city population. Charlotte is 18th in population, but is 24th in media market size.

The Panthers are disadvantaged financially vs other teams. Our stadium is in uptown meaning the team does not get any revenue from parking. The teams that own their own parking lots are getting 20-100 dollars per car for 20-30,000 vehicles. That is a lot of money the Panthers cannot collect.

I mentioned we are the 24th ranked TV audience in an earlier post so this has already been discussed but to answer the question:

By DMA TV size here are some of the markets behind us which must make them small market as well:

Pittsburgh

Baltimore

Indianapolis

San Diego

Nashville

Kansas City

Cincinatti

Jacksonville

Buffalo

New Orleans

Green Bay

So we are in good company here and many of these franchises are fine financially like us.

What we lose in parking and other possible amenities we gain by not having a ton of stadium debt since the PSLs funded the majority of the stadium buildout. We are in much better shape than many franchises and are not disadvantaged as you say.

Look at teams like Pittsburgh who by television standards are smaller market than us. Do you think of them as small market? Do they have trouble selling out games?? The trruth is that with regionalization and national stages for games based on popularity and success, many of the so called small market teams like Pittsburgh, Indy, Baltimore, etc are hardly considered small market otherwise. So I really don't know that TV markets is a good way to judge a franchise's success or viability either.

[DaveThePanther2008]

I mentioned we are the 24th ranked TV audience in an earlier post so this has already been discussed but to answer the question:

By DMA TV size here are some of the markets behind us which must make them small market as well:

Pittsburgh

Baltimore

Indianapolis

San Diego

Nashville

Kansas City

Cincinatti

Jacksonville

Buffalo

New Orleans

Green Bay

So we are in good company here and many of these franchises are fine financially like us.

What we lose in parking and other possible amenities we gain by not having a ton of stadium debt since the PSLs funded the majority of the stadium buildout. We are in much better shape than many franchises and are not disadvantaged as you say.

Look at teams like Pittsburgh who by television standards are smaller market than us. Do you think of them as small market? Do they have trouble selling out games?? The trruth is that with regionalization and national stages for games based on popularity and success, many of the so called small market teams like Pittsburgh, Indy, Baltimore, etc are hardly considered small market otherwise. So I really don't know that TV markets is a good way to judge a franchise's success or viability either.

You could probably add 5 or 6 teams that are above us in this group as well.

What I think helps is NFL longevity and how successful. Pittsburgh, Green Bay and Baltimore have very rich traditions in the NFL. Though the Ravens are basically new the fans aren't. Baltimore had great fans and deserved the Ravens. That is another topic. Some of the other teams Buffalo and Cincinnati have never really had a winning product. Ironically these are the two AFC they were talking about in the video.

The majority of the NFL is small market.

[Mother Grabber]

Hopefully things are about finished...

http://www.cbssports.com/#!/nfl/story/15247120/moderates-kraft-mara-will-be-key-if-season-is-saved

[SCP]

Hopefully things are about finished...

http://www.cbssports.com/#!/nfl/story/15247120/moderates-kraft-mara-will-be-key-if-season-is-saved

Jerry Richardson being viewed as a "hard ass" and flamed on in the media. I love it.

[panthers55]

Jerry Richardson being viewed as a "hard ass" and flamed on in the media. I love it.

He is in a perfect position to either try and sway owners for or against the owner proposal. He has been in all the negotiations and knows where things are headed. If he like Kraft go from hard ass to moderate, in favor of a deal, he can likely convince the others to go for it. On the other hand if he tries to garner support for a harder stance there will be a lot of fireworks on Tuesday. I hope he wants to get a deal done and if he doesn't support it at least doesn't try to submarine it.

[rayzor]

interesting couple of articles out today from albert breer and andrew brandt about the owners concerned about the economy, apparently two of the owners in that group are none other than robert kraft (pats) and stephen ross (dolphins), neither of which are guys i would have associated with small market teams...esp. kraft.

from the breer article...

Owner "factions" aren't as well defined as some have portrayed them to be.

The easy thing to do here is to box owners into "deal-maker" and "hawk" categories. In actuality, it's not that simple at all. On nearly every issue, there are differing opinions and shifting alliances within the ownership. That'll make Commissioner Roger Goodell's job -- to serve the interests of 32 teams, each with a unique circumstances -- a challenging one over the next few weeks.

At this meeting, the idea will be to get the 32 owners on the same page. That doesn't mean they'll agree on everything. But remember, just seven owners have been a part of the recent "secret" meetings, and so many will enter this meeting needing the update they'll get. Voices will be heard on all major issues, concerns will be aired, and the negotiating team's approach after the meeting will need to reflect those things.

The condition of the national economy will be raised.

Last week, the concerns some owners expressed over the economy's condition surfaced. Several owners -- including the very involved Robert Kraft from the New England Patriots, as well as the Miami Dolphins' Stephen Ross -- have a broader view of things, because of their involvement in businesses outside of football. These owners are sensitive to the condition of the national economy and the unemployment rate. Those owners want more substantive talks -- and less lawyering -- to balance a deal with those factors in mind.

That's not to say that anything raised by Kraft, Ross or any other owner will be a deal breaker. Kraft, of course, has been a major part of bringing the players and owners together, but his concern and potential resistance on this issue underscores the complexity of the overall situation within the ranks. It also shows the importance, on the part of both parties, on remaining thorough in this monumental negotiation, which everyone hopes will set the game up financially for some 20 years to come.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82066062/article/tangle-of-hope-pessimism-surrounds-owners-talks-in-chicago

and from the brandt article that talked about the CBA deal done in '06 (from his perspective as the packers GM at that time) and the aftermath as well as what the "handful of owners" are concerned about financially...it's all about ROI.

The 2006 aftermath

From 2005 to 2006 – the first year of the new CBA -- the Cap rose an unprecedented 19.3%, from $85.5 million to $102 million! Player costs had reached new heights, and I spent more time on addressing pre-2006 contract players who were seeing the market pass them by as I did on new contracts.

The Owners had a couple of different opt-out dates from the 2006 CBA, the first deadline being November of 2008. They didn’t even wait that long. In May of 2008 the Owners unanimously opted-out, shortening a CBA scheduled to run through 2013 by two years (it expired on March 11th this year).

Are there owners frustrated with the deal they made? Absolutely. Do some owners blame Tagliabue for a Player-friendly deal? Yes. Are there owners now realizing that Brown and Wilson were correct to vote against the deal? Yes, although few will admit now siding with those two.

What do Owners want?

The Owners have had a tough sell in this labor dispute, both to the Players and to the public. They cannot – like NBA owners – claim losses. They cannot claim they should make more money; that doesn’t play well on Main Street. Thus, they speak in terms of “shared sacrifice,” and “sustainable models,” code words for the Players receiving less of a share than they presently receive.

The Owners message is a changed environment since 2006: lack of public financing of stadiums, massive debt, player costs outpacing revenues, etc. Players respond by asking for more complete financials, a key negotiation issue for the next CBA.

In simplistic business terms, Owners want better ROI (return on investment). They have assets with, say, $300 million in annual revenues and $10-15 million in profit. They are aware of other business with similar numbers with multiples of that profit number.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/A-moment-in-time.html

[SorthNarolina]

Jerry Richardson being viewed as a "hard ass" and flamed on in the media. I love it.

He's not cheap or heartless like the media portrays him but he is definitely a hard ass. He's not a hard ass to be mean or personal like the media wanted that Brees/Manning thing to be, but yeah the man doesn't play games.

[rayzor]

also an interesting and actually intelligent comment/suggestion from florio on PFT with a response by ryan kalil....

In our view, Kraft’s concerns possibly will result in what we’ll call a “true-down” — a device for reeling back the year-by-year salary cap in the event that performance comes in lower than projected. It’s a fair goose-gander point; if the players want to share in the upside (as they should), then they should be required to share in the risk of the pie shrinking. The current talks focus essentially on a guaranteed minimum (via a “pegged cap”) plus a share of the upside; perhaps to get a deal done, Kraft and the rest of the owners will seek, and receive, a commitment that a fully sliding scale will be used, both for better and for worse.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/20/kraft-ross-have-concerns-about-another-economic-downturn/

RyanKalil “If the players want to share in the upside, then they should be required to share in the risk of the pie shrinking.” Agreed. #PFT

[Panthercougar68]

A writer proping up owners from New York and Boston, which is funny because Freeman wrote for the Times and Globe so no bias there what so ever. The JR hate really pisses me off the man is all about respect. I've heard plenty of stories with JR being a hard ass but it was deserved.

and no I don't agree with eveything that happened last year.