John Kasay: Terrible or Great?

[PanthersPhan18]

Great!

Now if only he could win the big one before he retires. One of the happiest days of my life it would be.

[rayzor]

again, i specified last year.

any reason you didn't include that in your stats?

oh....name all the punters who are also the kickoff guys for their teams. not the guys who have done it from time to time, but those whose jobs are fulltime punter and kickoff specialist.

kasay isn't as valuable now as he has been in the past. he's not as valuable as people make him out to be.

as for 50+ yard kicks...why in the world is that a key stat for kickers? how many of those do they do a year compared to the rest of the distances? too many factors to consider when looking at kickers doing it from that distance and the number of times they are asked to do it.

Last 4 healthy years

Kasay

2007

0-19: 2/2

20-29: 6/6

30-39: 8/9

40-49: 6/9

85.7%

2008

0-19:

20-29: 7/7

30-39: 9/9

40-49: 11/12

90.3%

2009

0-19:

20-29: 7/7

30-39: 9/10

40-49: 5/6

81.5%

2010

0-19:

20-29: 9/9

30-39: 2/2

40-49: 11/14

86.2%

Overall average kicking percent: 85.9%

Graham

2006

0-19:

20-29: 9/9

30-39: 8/9

40-49: 6/8

83.3%

2007

0-19: 1/1

20-29: 11/12

30-39: 13/13

40-49: 6/7

91.2%

2008

0-19: 1/1

20-29: 5/5

30-39: 6/7

40-49: 9/11

87.5%

2009

0-19:

20-29: 10/11

30-39: 8/10

40-49: 3/3

82.1%

Overall average kicking percent: 86%

The last 4 full seasons of each player, its a draw between who has had the best percentage year by year and it just about is a draw for overall kicking percentage average as well. But if you look from 50+ yards, Kasay owns Graham. Again, I fail to see how Graham is significantly better than Kasay.

Also, kickoff duties don't fully rely on the field goal kicker. It can also rely on the punter. If you're going to bash the kicker for not being able to do it, you should the punter as well.

Kasay is still too valuable to let go right now.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

as for 50+ yard kicks...why in the world is that a key stat for kickers? how many of those do they do a year compared to the rest of the distances? too many factors to consider when looking at kickers doing it from that distance and the number of times they are asked to do it.

What? I feel like you're pushing a little too hard for Shayne Graham and lost your objectivity. The ability to kick from 50 yards and more is incredibly important. It allows you to convert drives into points a higher percentage of the time. Points are fairly important.

You keep pushing Shayne's stats from last year, but he attempted one FG from 40 yards or more (41). While John Kasay was 11-14 from 40-49 yards and 3-4 from 50 plus. Graham attempted chip shots all year and 12 for 12 from that range is no great feat. I would take Kasay's year over Shayne's any time.

[KillerKat]

again, i specified last year.

any reason you didn't include that in your stats?

oh....name all the punters who are also the kickoff guys for their teams. not the guys who have done it from time to time, but those whose jobs are fulltime punter and kickoff specialist.

kasay isn't as valuable now as he has been in the past. he's not as valuable as people make him out to be.

as for 50+ yard kicks...why in the world is that a key stat for kickers? how many of those do they do a year compared to the rest of the distances? too many factors to consider when looking at kickers doing it from that distance and the number of times they are asked to do it.

I didn't include Grahams stats from last season because he only played 9 damn games and if I compared that with Kasay last season, Kasay would've dominated and it wouldn't be fair. Thats why I included the last 4 HEALTHY years from each kicker, which gives a good perspective of how well each kicker is. Kasay 07-10 and Graham 06-09.

If you don't think Kasay is as vaulable now, just take a look around the league of teams struggling to find consistant kickers. Hell, just look at Kasay's stats from last season! Besides the stats I just showed you, he was 3/4 from 50+! I don't want to become like the Dallas Cowboys and have years go by before we actually find someone else.

50+ yard kicks not a key stat? Really?? I think you're grasping at straws here.

[rayzor]

What? I feel like you're pushing a little too hard for Shayne Graham and lost your objectivity. The ability to kick from 50 yards and more is incredibly important. It allows you to convert drives into points a higher percentage of the time. Points are fairly important.

You keep pushing Shayne's stats from last year, but he attempted one FG from 40 yards or more (41). While John Kasay was 11-14 from 40-49 yards and 3-4 from 50 plus. Graham attempted chip shots all year and 12 for 12 from that range is no great feat. I would take Kasay's year over Shayne's any time.

i'm not pushing for anyone or anything except for us to have the best players possible on the team. we can do better than kasay and we need to be working on that. he only does half the job he's supposed to be doing.

i really don't think anyone wanting to keep him around is really thinking all that objectively. people want him on the team because he's always been here. he is overvalued in carolina because he has been here since the beginning.

again, nothing against him. he's a nice guy apparently, but his inability to kick off has caused us to have to waste a roster spot on a kickoff specialist. were it not for the loyalty that the organization and fanbase has for him, he would have been replaced a while ago.

there is nothing particularly special about him as a kicker and he could rather easily be replaced.

I didn't include Grahams stats from last season because he only played 9 damn games and if I compared that with Kasay last season, Kasay would've dominated and it wouldn't be fair. Thats why I included the last 4 HEALTHY years from each kicker, which gives a good perspective of how well each kicker is. Kasay 07-10 and Graham 06-09.

If you don't think Kasay is as vaulable now, just take a look around the league of teams struggling to find consistant kickers. Hell, just look at Kasay's stats from last season! Besides the stats I just showed you, he was 3/4 from 50+! I don't want to become like the Dallas Cowboys and have years go by before we actually find someone else.

50+ yard kicks not a key stat? Really?? I think you're grasping at straws here.

the bolded is what i figured. can't use stats showing that he was better than kasay for that year because it isn't fair to kasay.

here:

0-19: 1/1

20-29: 5/5

30-39: 5/5

40-49: 1/1

100%

how long has it been since kasay went 9 games in a row without missing a FG?

re: the 50+ yard kicks....so we keep an extra guy on the roster to do kickoffs because we need someone to kick a 50+ yard FG 4 times in a season? :lol: wow.

forgive me if i don't want to settle for a kicker just because he's been around since the beginning. i've got no loyalty to any player, just to the team. if we can be made better by finding a kicker just as reliable and who can do kickoffs so we don't have to waste a roster spot for a KOS, then we should. i can't see how anyone could have a problem with that unless you are just blindly loyal to the guy because of his history here.

it doesn't have to be graham. he was just an example. matt prater is available and would be the ideal. great at kickoffs and as a FG kicker and he's under 30.

i just want us to get better and not hold on to guys because we are used to them being here.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

i'm not pushing for anyone or anything except for us to have the best players possible on the team. we can do better than kasay and we need to be working on that. he only does half the job he's supposed to be doing.

i really don't think anyone wanting to keep him around is really thinking all that objectively. people want him on the team because he's always been here. he is overvalued in carolina because he has been here since the beginning.

again, nothing against him. he's a nice guy apparently, but his inability to kick off has caused us to have to waste a roster spot on a kickoff specialist. were it not for the loyalty that the organization and fanbase has for him, he would have been replaced a while ago.

there is nothing particularly special about him as a kicker and he could rather easily be replaced.

the bolded is what i figured. can't use stats showing that he was better than kasay for that year because it isn't fair to kasay.

here:

0-19: 1/1

20-29: 5/5

30-39: 5/5

40-49: 1/1

100%

how long has it been since kasay went 9 games in a row without missing a FG?

re: the 50+ yard kicks....so we keep an extra guy on the roster to do kickoffs because we need someone to kick a 50+ yard FG 4 times in a season? :lol: wow.

forgive me if i don't want to settle for a kicker just because he's been around since the beginning. i've got no loyalty to any player, just to the team. if we can be made better by finding a kicker just as reliable and who can do kickoffs so we don't have to waste a roster spot for a KOS, then we should. i can't see how anyone could have a problem with that unless you are just blindly loyal to the guy because of his history here.

it doesn't have to be graham. he was just an example. matt prater is available and would be the ideal. great at kickoffs and as a FG kicker and he's under 30.

i just want us to get better and not hold on to guys because we are used to them being here.

We'll just have to disagree. I feel like Kasay is still obviously an elite kicker, and with the new rule change he will probably be able to do kickoffs. I'm wouldn't replace a guy who had a better year than any free agent that's going to be available just because we need youth or whatever at the kicker position. Kickers are weird and just fall off a cliff sometimes for no reason. If you have one who performs at an elite level, you should keep him.

[ed bell]

It's a hell of a feeling when your kicker lines up for the game winner and you get a sinking feeling because he can't be trusted to make it.....only to feel the sting of a loss when it goes wide....Panther fans haven't had to experience that, ever. Remember that when we have an untested kicker some day.

Kasay= Great

[panthers55]

I am partial to the kickers who can boot it from 50 plus with any kind of accuracy. Most times, not all, that fifty yarder might be a game winner or points before halftime or for the lead. Seems to me that of course any field goal is a good thing and consistency is the key. Can't really blame Graham for not kicking any fifty yarders, either his coach didn't think he could do it or he never had the opportunity, I didn't follow him enough to know with is more likely. Still I can't think of many kickers I would trust when the distance was greater than fifty than Kasay. He has missed a few potential game winners and made many others. Making three out of every four kicks beyond 50 yards for as long as he has done it, is a feat that even Graham surely admires. Kasay is a great kicker not only for his physical skills but his leadership qualities and presence which are extremely positive in the locker room and on the field. How many kickers are leaders on and off the field versus being odd quirky characters? The measure of Kasay is both as a player and as a man. You can't really separate the two.

I don't see why it has to be "either or" when debating Graham and Kasay. Seems they both have been good kickers from the stats I saw. You have to decide if you prefer a guy with great accuracy but potentially limited distance versus a guy who can make all the kicks better than 4 out of 5 times. But both are great kickers. I prefer Kasay but like Graham. Personal preference, nothing more.

[Jangler]

[KillerKat]

the bolded is what i figured. can't use stats showing that he was better than kasay for that year because it isn't fair to kasay.

here:

0-19: 1/1

20-29: 5/5

30-39: 5/5

40-49: 1/1

100%

how long has it been since kasay went 9 games in a row without missing a FG?

re: the 50+ yard kicks....so we keep an extra guy on the roster to do kickoffs because we need someone to kick a 50+ yard FG 4 times in a season? :lol: wow.

forgive me if i don't want to settle for a kicker just because he's been around since the beginning. i've got no loyalty to any player, just to the team. if we can be made better by finding a kicker just as reliable and who can do kickoffs so we don't have to waste a roster spot for a KOS, then we should. i can't see how anyone could have a problem with that unless you are just blindly loyal to the guy because of his history here.

it doesn't have to be graham. he was just an example. matt prater is available and would be the ideal. great at kickoffs and as a FG kicker and he's under 30.

i just want us to get better and not hold on to guys because we are used to them being here.

So you're comparing 9 games of a kicker to another kicker who played all 16? Do you realise how stupid that is? Do you realise how many more kicks Kasay has had to attempt in 7 more games which of course would make him less than 100%? Graham only attempted ONE kick from 40+ yards. All Graham did was attempt chip shots. If Kasay only had to attempt one kick from 40+ yards for 9 games, I'd gurantee you he would be perfect too.

We need Kasay for those long range kicks. I would prefer a kicker that can make those than cut him and suffer in field goal kicking just because that kicker can do kickoffs. If the rule change didn't happen this year, I would be in favor of cutting Baker and getting a punter who can do kickoffs. Kasay puts points on the board for us and comes through for us in clutch situations and you need those kinds of kickers to help you win in close games.

Btw, in 2008 Kasay was perfect from weeks 1 through 8 and thats including long range field goals (7 from 40+ and 1 from 50+)