Update

[SCP]

So I guess my Otah jersey might be a "throwback" jersey sooner than later.

[CRA]

you obviously are missing my point..

you're right, he doesn't have to be a leader. I'm not coming from a place that says he does, or from a place that is trying to make Smitty out to be somethign he's not.

I'm coming from a place where I see idiots come on here and say "f**k smitty, ship him out, he's on the level of TO".. (paraphrased, not much though)

And so I'm pointing out incidents (post-2008 punching of Lucas) where he has continued to show growth. and FWIW, he never punched a teammate every year. He went 5 years without incident, and then when Lucas said some poo he shouldn't have, Smitty snapped.

has he f**ked up? yes. he's human. and you will find the same f**k ups with all of the great competitors.. Jordan, Kobe, etc. Has Smitty been a Muhsin Muhammad type leader? No..

and I'm not saying that. what I am saying is the dude f**ks up, but also I've pointed out situations where he has tried to grow. to which my main point is, people do change.

maybe not in some grand fashion. maybe they f**k up again. but there are plenty of examples of people in the NFL who were immature and have changed.

Smitty just has another issue separate from immaturity and that's competitive streak to the like of Jordan and Kobe.. poo happens, that doesn't mean he doesn't grow.

but no one can discount the fact that Smitty has stepped up as a veteran should. maybe not the ideal role model leader, but a vet who speaks like a leader from time to time. just because it's not his niche (or any good at it) doesn't make it any less relevant or like he hasn't tried.

using last season as an example is just like saying we have the true talent of a 2-14 team, instead of realizing our coach was a big problem and our FO was a big problem. for someone as competitive as he is to ignore that and just take the "employee mentality" isn't what great people do. they don't just fall in line.

I'm trying to explain a middle ground here that many fans seem totally incapable of conceiving.

Smitty's positives have always outweighed his negatives IMO in Carolina. Him punching people and being an ass is stuff I think you put up with b/c he brough so much other positive to the table.....mainly his ability/production.

The day will come IMO where his attitude and the negative is not outweighed by his play. The day IMO will also come sooner the younger the offense is at the QB position.

[rayzor]

I don't know what the next few FA classes look like, but I think it makes sense (especially with an uncertain season coming up) on filling a few holes, sign our talent, and let this year play out..

this 1, uncertain year gives Rivera/coaches time to see where the true issues lie and what positions they need to address in FA and which can be handled through the draft.

certainly it can be said that we have cap room to spend, and one line of thought would assume "let's attack".. I don't know if that means we have to attack this year.

also, once everyone is signed and 1 or 2 FA are signed, we'll know for sure how much cap we are dealing with. We may have a good idea at the moment of how much is available, but we may still be speculating a bit..

reports i've seen is that there is about $73mil committed to the cap thus far (maybe a little more w/shockey). add in the kalil franchise tag and that is $84mil (if they can't get a deal done which they should be able to).

the cap floor in 2009 was $112.1mil. in the old CBA the cap floor raised every year by 1.2%. had it kept on the cap floor would have been $114.8mil. cap floor should be somewhere in between those two numbers. the cap max was at $128mil in 2009. probably safe to assume it will be at least that.

how much will it take to re-sign the core players? remember, you don't look at the whole size of the contract, but the yearly amount that it would count against the cap. it's hard to imagine that re-signing them would take us much past the cap floor. add in newton ...i guess a lot depends on the rookie cap. if it's anything like bradford's contract it will wind up being $10-11mil a year. even with that, we would probably be in the bottom third cap-wise in the league. the rest of the picks shouldn't have much of an impact.

i don't know...just seems they should be in a lot better position to get more talent in after the house cleaning they did last year. it would be crazy not to take advantage of it to seriously address the obvious weak spots that still exist (DT, Oline depth, CB, and WR).

[jtnc]

reports i've seen is that there is about $73mil committed to the cap thus far (maybe a little more w/shockey). add in the kalil franchise tag and that is $84mil (if they can't get a deal done which they should be able to).

the cap floor in 2009 was $112.1mil. in the old CBA the cap floor raised every year by 1.2%. had it kept on the cap floor would have been $114.8mil. cap floor should be somewhere in between those two numbers. the cap max was at $128mil in 2009. probably safe to assume it will be at least that.

how much will it take to re-sign the core players? remember, you don't look at the whole size of the contract, but the yearly amount that it would count against the cap. it's hard to imagine that re-signing them would take us much past the cap floor. add in newton ...i guess a lot depends on the rookie cap. if it's anything like bradford's contract it will wind up being $10-11mil a year. even with that, we would probably be in the bottom third cap-wise in the league. the rest of the picks shouldn't have much of an impact.

i don't know...just seems they should be in a lot better position to get more talent in after the house cleaning they did last year. it would be crazy not to take advantage of it to seriously address the obvious weak spots that still exist (DT, Oline depth, CB, and WR).

Newton won't get paid as nearly as much as Bradford, probably around 4-5 million a year. Extending Beason is gonna put us in the hole, he'll probably get the biggest contract in Panthers history.

[Ivan The Awesome]

i don't know...just seems they should be in a lot better position to get more talent in after the house cleaning they did last year. It would be crazy not to take advantage of it to seriously address the obvious weak spots that still exist (dt, oline depth, cb, and wr).

exactly!

[TruCatzFan]

I find it very amusing that SOME people discredit him as being a leader... (steve smith)

He is a Team Captain right?? They don't just give those titles away... As I recall they took it from him the year he punched Lucas, and after a few games after suspension was served, he had it back.

Also, people assuming that he does not mentor and teach his young WR brethren... I find this the most fascinating to be honest...

Are you there in the room with the WR's during their film sessions? Are you at every practice actually seeing this first hand?? Nope, I didn't think so...

You use an article here or there, and use it as proof that he doesn't help and mentor his team mates. I think that mentality is asinine! If for only his own selfish reasons it would behoove him to give them everything he has si that he can become more open... I don't think that's the case though...

The article that sticks out the mist about him not mentoring would be the one in which Dwayne Jarret called him out for not helping him...

I think... And this is only my opinion... That he needed to see Dwayne Jarret try and help himself before he helped him out. Not saying it's right but... Look at it from Smitty's point of view.. Jarret arrived thinking he was the next great Keyshawn... DUI's before his rookie season ever began... Compact that with his "slow" learning aptitude and even more lethargic effort in working on his game... Not even dressing for games etc... I think that's why Smitty had such disdain for him.

Remember when there was a time that no fan understood what the problem with Jarret was... Nobody said anything for a long long time... Until one day Jarret spoke out if his mouth sideways and Smitty fired back calling him on his BS...

All I'm saying is that it's hard to just say he isn't a team player or leader with that type if speculation to back it up. I have always been told and raised on the old adage that you lead by example... As far as being a WR... I don't think he could set a better one. That's just my opinion though...

Bleys, I loved your post btw

[CRA]

I find it very amusing that SOME people discredit him as being a leader... (steve smith)

He is a Team Captain right?? They don't just give those titles away... As I recall they took it from him the year he punched Lucas, and after a few games after suspension was served, he had it back.

Also, people assuming that he does not mentor and teach his young WR brethren... I find this the most fascinating to be honest...

Are you there in the room with the WR's during their film sessions? Are you at every practice actually seeing this first hand?? Nope, I didn't think so...

You use an article here or there, and use it as proof that he doesn't help and mentor his team mates. I think that mentality is asinine! If for only his own selfish reasons it would behoove him to give them everything he has si that he can become more open... I don't think that's the case though...

The article that sticks out the mist about him not mentoring would be the one in which Dwayne Jarret called him out for not helping him...

I think... And this is only my opinion... That he needed to see Dwayne Jarret try and help himself before he helped him out. Not saying it's right but... Look at it from Smitty's point of view.. Jarret arrived thinking he was the next great Keyshawn... DUI's before his rookie season ever began... Compact that with his "slow" learning aptitude and even more lethargic effort in working on his game... Not even dressing for games etc... I think that's why Smitty had such disdain for him.

Remember when there was a time that no fan understood what the problem with Jarret was... Nobody said anything for a long long time... Until one day Jarret spoke out if his mouth sideways and Smitty fired back calling him on his BS...

All I'm saying is that it's hard to just say he isn't a team player or leader with that type if speculation to back it up. I have always been told and raised on the old adage that you lead by example... As far as being a WR... I don't think he could set a better one. That's just my opinion though...

Bleys, I loved your post btw

Peppers got a C b/c of talent and b/c people wanted him to become a leader........no real difference between him and Smitty in that regard. again, not being a leader isn't some big insult.

Also there are more reports than just Jarret claiming the "leader" wanted nothing to do with them. LaFell, Gettis, and Edwards said the only vet help/guidance they got was from Jarrett.....again, wanting to aid/assist your teammates isnt a requirement.

There is little to support Smitty being a real leader on the team. Not from reports and actions over the years. he doesn't gave to be that in order to be a great WR

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Bargain hunting is not something to be mad at but you can't really be happy about it when we have the money to make a splash. Take the Dallas Mavs for example who only had two players in The Jet and Dirk who were on their 2006 Western Conference Championship Team, but they used the money they had wisely and got some big names on the team like Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, Tyson Chandler, and DeShawn Stevenson. So it's kind of upsetting when you find out that your team, who has the money to make a splash is not even going to, when there are perfect examples of teams succeeding after going after guys that can step in and make an impact right away.

[pantherclaw]

Gee how fun. Bargain hunting. How excited I am to hear that!

That is what helped propel the Panthers to their Superbowl run.

Every team needs those role players.

You guys make me laugh. This is still a team that wants to build through the draft. Ignore that though, ignore the young talent on the team cause of your fears.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

That is what helped propel the Panthers to their Superbowl run.

Every team needs those role players.

You guys make me laugh. This is still a team that wants to build through the draft. Ignore that though, ignore the young talent on the team cause of your fears.

We did build through the draft, we got Cam Newton.

But when the team that is in place is only four starters (WR, CB, DT, OL) away from being a possible Super Bowl contender and players such as (WR) Sidney Rice, Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes (OL) Carl Nicks, Logan Mankins, Alan Faneca (DT) Brandon Mebane, Aubrayo Franklin, Barry Coefield (CB) Nnamdi Asomugha, Jonathan Joseph, and Ike Taylor on the board and the Panthers choose to go with cheaper guys who they THINK can get the job done, kind of upsets people. And we may have been to a Super Bowl while bargain hunting for players, but we did not WIN a Championship through bargain hunting.

[Razeyfingers]

Leaders have different responsibilities. Some lead other men and some lead the game. I think Smitty probably isn't a terrific leader of men because of what he's accomplished with his physical stature. His perspective is that of a smaller guy who had to work twice as hard to become what he is in the NFL. . . feared. Most of those "heart" guys make pooty coaches (or in this case, leaders of men) because they cant understand why players aren't putting in as much as they did.

I know he punched guys and I know he hulks out on the sidelines but some other situations may be warped by perspectives and motivated by dollar bills. Deciphering all of the truths can take time. Nevertheless I reserve the right to tattoo an 8 and a 9 on my right n left nut if I want (where's TattooRhino, how much does that cost?) and defend Smitty as a leader. How heavy has his negative episodes hurt the team? and his positive ones?

I understand he has had multiple issues with giving the team poostorms to deal with. Sometimes he's not a great teamplayer as Moose/Proehl were, but he does make the effort and strive to be more like them in that way. On the field, he is terror incarnate for the other team. I'll take the best cornerbacks' impression of who the most dangerous receivers are in the NFL, not "the experts".

That should be worth a lot of tolerance for he who judges the 89.

The day will come IMO where his attitude and the negative is not outweighed by his play. The day IMO will also come sooner the younger the offense is at the QB position.

EDIT: The day will come when Smitty retires and we will mostly all never give two poos that he had a couple of bad run-ins

[pantherclaw]

We did build through the draft, we got Cam Newton.

But when the team that is in place is only four starters (WR, CB, DT, OL) away from being a possible Super Bowl contender and players such as (WR) Sidney Rice, Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes (OL) Carl Nicks, Logan Mankins, Alan Faneca (DT) Brandon Mebane, Aubrayo Franklin, Barry Coefield (CB) Nnamdi Asomugha, Jonathan Joseph, and Ike Taylor on the board and the Panthers choose to go with cheaper guys who they THINK can get the job done, kind of upsets people. And we may have been to a Super Bowl while bargain hunting for players, but we did not WIN a Championship through bargain hunting.

So we should ignore good cap management cause you think we are a few players away from winning a championship with a rookie qb.

I have no problem with the team adding pieces that fit, and make sense.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

So we should ignore good cap management cause you think we are a few players away from winning a championship with a rookie qb.

I have no problem with the team adding pieces that fit, and make sense.

When you have the chance to be good you have to take risks. Many teams do it. The year the Saints won the Super Bowl they added two starters in Darren Sharper and Jabari Greer.

Now ownership does not need to bankrupt the team but when there are guys out there that you know can help the team get better at a weak position on your roster and you have the money yet you still refuse to do it is just flat out foolish.

[Razeyfingers]

So I guess my Otah jersey might be a "throwback" jersey sooner than later.

It's easy to bag on a guy that's 350 pounds. I never really understood how guys that big could even play in the NFL without getting career injuries after playing 5 or 6 games. . it's truly amazing what they do at that size. Anyways, if D'lo has his back then I dont see why we should take other people's impressions as more credible, especially if theyre not on the field bleeding with him or have just joined the staff.