Update

[bleys]

lol the classic "you're wrong because you never played before!" card.

beating 2-3 teammates, requesting a trade, bitching because the rookie WRs aren't kissing your feet only to drop more balls than usual, sulking and bitching on the sidelines is not a leader.

Swag means nothing, especially when you have the popular opinion whether it's wrong or right.

There are many arguments to be made for both sides of the coin with Steve and whether he should stay or

He's getting older, he's not the best teacher, he's had a couple injuries now, he might leave for free after this season anyway, etc

He's still productive when Jimmy Clausen and David Carr aren't playing QB, it's not his job to be a mentor, he can teach with his work ethic and plays, not off field stuff, he still has that fire that made him dominant, he's the best receiver we have by a wide margin, his trade value is low so why not keep him and try and work something out instead of giving him up for a 5th, etc

The main argument I can make for shipping him out is getting some value for an unhappy player. Good teams don't let their best players walk for nothing, they either trade them when they know they are going to be gone or they sign them to a new deal. We can't let his deal expire and have him walk for nothing. Absolutely can't have it.

I'd prefer he stay, but I also preferred that we didn't draft a QB so obviously the FO hasn't gotten my letters.

it's amazing how people store information.. lol

1 of these is more correct than the other.. I won't mention any names but it's not KK..

[TruCatzFan]

TRD... I have made the same cases both for keeping him and trading him in past threads... Glad to see that you retained all of it!

[TheRealDeal]

TRD... I have made the same cases both for keeping him and trading him in past threads... Glad to see that you retained all of it!

My goal is to be able to regurgitate all of your posts when I'm in public so people think I'm the shyit when it comes to football.

[weymouthst]

Getting B Edwards would be an excellent idea, as he still has potential and could move Smith around a lot more. But I would agree that it needs to be done for cheap. The guy doesn't deserve a big contract with the numbers he has put up.

[The Saltman]

I have tons of swag. Really doesnt prove anything...

wait a minute..

[weymouthst]

I think Smith is just frustrated, that's all. He is very emotional as well. I don't think he really ever thought of himself as a leader. When Moose was there he was probably the more mentor type. Now that he is the only vet he probably feels like he "has" to be the leader when he doesn't want to be. That is why the coaching just needs to pick up the slack, and a vet WR needs to be brought in who can help mentor this young WR corpse.

If Smith stays this year and gets some catches, depending on how Cam does, he could easily be back and have a new contract.

[4Corners]

That is why the coaching just needs to pick up the slack, and a vet WR needs to be brought in who can help mentor this young WR corpse.

you mean like one of these?

[raleigh-panther]

I think Smith is just frustrated, that's all. He is very emotional as well. .

Well, all I can say is I paid money and drove 6 hrs total to and from the stadium. I was pretty frustrated too.

:D

I probably would have taken a swing at Fox or JR had I the opportunity, or the appropriate number of Jack and Cokes.

[TylerVagyler]

I would love to bring Jonathan Joseph to this team, he is probably my number one target this offseason. He would be an instant upgrade over Marshall and would really help solidify our defense.

If Cincy doesn't re-sign Joseph, how much of an effort will the team put into getting him?

[CRA]

To: CRA and any other Smitty Haters

Lol....I am not a hater. I prefer he stays pending he doesn't do Cam like Clausen. Smitty is an amazing WR.

Fact remains he has PROVEN to have anger management issues. Being the most talented guy on a field doesn't make you a leader. That is all.....Smith to help lead a young team through a rough 2010 season......he was just one of the many problems.

[Panthercougar68]

Didn't we bargain hunt after the 01 and 02 season to get us to the Super Bowl? I remember the super bowl story on us was the "land of unwanted toys" kind of thing (lame)

I really can't remember that long ago for some reason. Getting old sucks :(

[CRA]

you painted a pretty hardcore picture there.. lol he reportedly punched 2 players.. I'd love to read about the 3rd, since this is the 1st time I'm hearing about it, as well as him kicking an opponent in the head, and unleashing on coaching staff..

the last part, I only remember him going off on Davidson for calling a dumbass play that almost injured him. do you really blame him for that? I don't.. I was pissed as well.. lol

Smith was one of few on the field pumping up Clausen before games. plenty of video of him going to teammates to get them out of their funk if they f**k up (video of him and DWill floating around somewhere on the net) or motivating Stew/DWill to keep running hard.. him talking to Delhomme when he was benched during the Eagles game, trying to joke around with him... etc, etc..

so yes, it's very clear he's stepped up and realized (maybe from Moose's tutelage) that it was time for him to grow up.

you have a point, he has anger management problems. so did Jordan, did you hear his press conference from going into the HOF? LOL.. players on that level have issues, highly competitive, I want to step on your throat even when winning.. issues.

and I am good with that. you're right in that aspect. it's incredibly hard to change your makeup in that regard.

however, people can change in other aspects, like decision making, work ethic, compassion for teammates, etc.. and in that regard, I think was Braylon Edwards problem, and it's perfectly rational to think maybe he has changed. IF the coaching staff feels as so, then I'll take their word for it. if he hasn't, so be it.

but we can name a lot of players in the NFL who were once young and immature and change.. you may not change your competitiveness, but majority of the time, players like Vernon Davis, Vick, Smitty have made strides of change and stepped it up.

He didn't reportedly punch 2 players. He reportedly punched 3. We know for 100% fact he punched 2. If you want the alleged 3rd incident then go just send Gantt a message on twitter and ask him.......Gantt has routinely brought it up over the years when people talk about the other 2 incidents.

I am not going to do the research to point out every incident where Smitty has lost his cool with coaches, players and opponents. The head kick was the Superbowl season if memory serves me correctly.

Steve Smith is a GREAT WR. He is fun to watch. He has NOT matured much. He routinely has had issues with his anger and says the right thinks after each incident.......but he has never changed. Actions speak louder than words.

Steve Smith doesn't have to be perfect. Sometimes fans defend there favorite players of anything and everything......no need for that on Smitty's issues.

Smitty going up to Clausen and warm up and trying pump him out.....doesn't mean that much when the games start and he is jumping all over a rookie who is obviously in way over his head. That ain't leadership. Team leaders don't ignore everyone at their position and refuse to work with them as a season starts. I still fail to see how Smitty was this great leader in 2010......and let's not forget all the reports after the Lucas incident where he teammates meet with him and directly told him about all there issues with him as a "teammate". Nothing reported on suggested he was viewed as this great leader. Most of the reports from then suggest he was unapproachable and more of the team ahole.

Smitty doesn't have to be a leader. All he has to do is be a dangerous WR and he does that pretty damn well......and I love watching him do it. I just think people go to far with their Smitty love trying to turn him into something he has never shown us.

[Ivan The Awesome]

One name I was told to keep an eye out for is Braylon Edwards. He is young and speculation around the league is he can be had for cheap. He has experience with Chudz and had his best season with him. If he can be signed for cheap look for the Panther to be in the running.

This is great. I sincerely hope It happens.

[bleys]

He didn't reportedly punch 2 players. He reportedly punched 3. We know for 100% fact he punched 2. If you want the alleged 3rd incident then go just send Gantt a message on twitter and ask him.......Gantt has routinely brought it up over the years when people talk about the other 2 incidents.

I am not going to do the research to point out every incident where Smitty has lost his cool with coaches, players and opponents. The head kick was the Superbowl season if memory serves me correctly.

Steve Smith is a GREAT WR. He is fun to watch. He has NOT matured much. He routinely has had issues with his anger and says the right thinks after each incident.......but he has never changed. Actions speak louder than words.

Steve Smith doesn't have to be perfect. Sometimes fans defend there favorite players of anything and everything......no need for that on Smitty's issues.

Smitty going up to Clausen and warm up and trying pump him out.....doesn't mean that much when the games start and he is jumping all over a rookie who is obviously in way over his head. That ain't leadership. Team leaders don't ignore everyone at their position and refuse to work with them as a season starts. I still fail to see how Smitty was this great leader in 2010......and let's not forget all the reports after the Lucas incident where he teammates meet with him and directly told him about all there issues with him as a "teammate". Nothing reported on suggested he was viewed as this great leader. Most of the reports from then suggest he was unapproachable and more of the team ahole.

Smitty doesn't have to be a leader. All he has to do is be a dangerous WR and he does that pretty damn well......and I love watching him do it. I just think people go to far with their Smitty love trying to turn him into something he has never shown us.

you obviously are missing my point..

you're right, he doesn't have to be a leader. I'm not coming from a place that says he does, or from a place that is trying to make Smitty out to be somethign he's not.

I'm coming from a place where I see idiots come on here and say "f**k smitty, ship him out, he's on the level of TO".. (paraphrased, not much though)

And so I'm pointing out incidents (post-2008 punching of Lucas) where he has continued to show growth. and FWIW, he never punched a teammate every year. He went 5 years without incident, and then when Lucas said some poo he shouldn't have, Smitty snapped.

has he f**ked up? yes. he's human. and you will find the same f**k ups with all of the great competitors.. Jordan, Kobe, etc. Has Smitty been a Muhsin Muhammad type leader? No..

and I'm not saying that. what I am saying is the dude f**ks up, but also I've pointed out situations where he has tried to grow. to which my main point is, people do change.

maybe not in some grand fashion. maybe they f**k up again. but there are plenty of examples of people in the NFL who were immature and have changed.

Smitty just has another issue separate from immaturity and that's competitive streak to the like of Jordan and Kobe.. poo happens, that doesn't mean he doesn't grow.

but no one can discount the fact that Smitty has stepped up as a veteran should. maybe not the ideal role model leader, but a vet who speaks like a leader from time to time. just because it's not his niche (or any good at it) doesn't make it any less relevant or like he hasn't tried.

using last season as an example is just like saying we have the true talent of a 2-14 team, instead of realizing our coach was a big problem and our FO was a big problem. for someone as competitive as he is to ignore that and just take the "employee mentality" isn't what great people do. they don't just fall in line.

I'm trying to explain a middle ground here that many fans seem totally incapable of conceiving.