I see us making a splash with a WR

[DaveThePanther2008]

This is the worst argument I keep seeing about Gettis and LaFell...

we can either go the Colbert/Carter route and hope they live up to expectations (and live with mediocrity) or we can create competition and bring in solid receivers (of the #1 variety)..

players either grow or they don't. competition doesn't hinder, it actually provokes growth.

While you may disagree with it, it is hardly a "worst argument"

My opinion and arguments are as valid as anyones. Not the worst, not stupid or any other degrading comment because you don't agree with it. While you MAY be in the majority on your opinion (alot bandwagon because the don't want to express their own opinion) doesn't mean mine is any less accurate than yours.

yeah...i feel like we have a much more competent group of coaches and i've got a lot of faith in them, but i can't get colbert and carter out of my head.

this system is going to be relying heavily on it's passing game and it will have 3-4 WRs on just about every play. we have to make sure that we have as many strong and capable receivers as possible.

then you add in the fact that we just drafted a QB #1 overall. much of his success is going to hinge on who he is throwing the ball to. sure, they could wait to draft alshon jeffery (or blackmon) next year, but they can't count on that happening and working out. they have to make sure they have talented guys for newton to throw to.

you can't throw lafell and gettis back in there along with an untested edwards and hope to see success.

you can't count on smith being here, being happy, and playing every game in the season.

you can't count on picking someone up mid season if your WR corps fails to do well.

you have to plan ahead and take advantage of cap space and available talent.

First of all both of you ignored "If Smitty stays" You make it sound as if my argument is that we are going in with 2nd year players ONLY.

Why would after 10 yrs Smitty all of a sudden would "Not playing every game of the season" Unless Injured Smith will give 100%.

Plan ahead and take advantage of Cap Space. You mean like Keyshawn Johnson or Rod Gardner? There is NO Guarantee that an experienced WR will do any better than what we currently have on our roster.

Both Gettis and LaFell did extremely well for rookies. I believe 5 and 6 in the group. What better way for Cam to grow then to have TWO WRs that will grow with him.

While paranoia about Colbert is there. I don't see us throwing money at a WR that the parent team doesn't value enough to keep. If the individual WR isn't worth keeping on their current team. What makes him now a better option at #2 over Gettis and Lafell?

I don't see us cutting Edwards or Pilares. This forum has ranted and raved about, Trent Guy, Wallace Wright and my favorite to make the team Charly Martin. In fact, had Martin not got hurt last year he was going to make the squad. Plus C.M. reminds me alot of Ricky Proehl.

[bleys]

While you may disagree with it, it is hardly a "worst argument"

My opinion and arguments are as valid as anyones. Not the worst, not stupid or any other degrading comment because you don't agree with it. While you MAY be in the majority on your opinion (alot bandwagon because the don't want to express their own opinion) doesn't mean mine is any less accurate than yours.

it typically takes receivers 3-4 years to reach the field. in the mean time, true #1 and #2 talent receivers are playing.

There is a position called WR coach, and also veteran WR, to help coach up the youngin's so they develop into NFL caliber WRs..

to disregard that and assume Gettis and LaFell will be hindered is nothing to bet the farm on.

if you bring in 2 veteran receivers, LaFell and Gettis stand MORE of a chance to LEARN than they do to FAIL...

hence why this isn't so much of an opinion of mine than it is a fact that exists around the NFL.

however, you're THEORY is more based on opinion than mine.. considering I can point to more examples of my "opinion" than you can of yours..

edit:

it is a fact that PROVEN veterans are more valuable than rookie or sophomore recievers. Comparing a veteran receiver to Rod Gardner is a joke. Rod Gardner is no Santonio Holmes, Floyd, Edwards, or ANY WR who has made it in the NFL.. considering Rod Gardner didn't do poo in the NFL.. lol

oh, and Keyshawn was on his last leg.. so to use him as an example is even more of a joke considering no one in FA that is highly touted is past their 4-6th year of their career. meaning they are PROVEN and in their PRIME..

However, Keyshawn was PROVEN.. and he was a SOLID #2 receiver putting up 800+ yards in his 1st (only) year with us. bringing him up is irrelevant in every aspect.

edit #2:

so with all said, Colbert/Carter come to mind knowing that we get to wait around and HOPE that your OPINION is based on something other than theory that Gettis/LaFell make it as offensive threats because somewhere in the universe you've come to the conclusion that wasting time is best for what could turn out to be mediocre talent.. when veterans will never hinder that talent.

of course, I can sit around and pretend everyone has a valid opinion and is no dumber or less constructive than the next guy... or I can remember the last time someone tried telling me Fiammetta needs replaced or that Stewart is more injury prone than DWill, or that Smitty still has #1 talent, or that Tom Brady will last another 10 years in the league, or that Brett Favre will be a great addition to the team, or that Charles Johnson will never replace Pep, or that James Anderson is not starting material, or that Gamble is not one of the top 10 corners in the league, or... shall I continue?

yes, they are all opinions.. however, forgive me if I call them wrong... (which is much nicer than calling them stupid... a term much more relevant)

[DaveThePanther2008]

Brandon Lloyd? The guy has been in the league 8 years and amassed over a 1/3 of his career numbers in one season. Before 2010 he had only eclipsed 500 yds twice. Before 2010 He hadn't played a full season since 2005 and has only played a full season 3 out of 8 season. He is as inconsistent and unreliable as Colbert was. Hardly someone I would take over Gettis or LaFell. And hardly someone I would pay big bucks to.

Santana Holmes

2006 49 Rec 824 YD 2 TD

2007 52 Rec 942 YD 8 TD

2008 55 Rec 821 YD 5 TD

2009 79 Rec 1248 YD 5 TD

2010 52 Rec 746 YD 6 TD

Braylon Edwards

2005 32 Rec 512 YD 3 TD

2006 61 Rec 884 YD 6 TD

2007 80 Rec 1289 YD 16 TD

2008 55 Rec 873 YD 3 TD

2009 45 Rec 780 YD 4 TD

2010 53 Rec 904 YD 7 TD

Gettis 37 Rec 508 3 TD

LaFell 38 Rec 468 1 TD

These two players that you are so hot on blow your own theory out of the water. Both of these two players have been productive from the beginning. Gettis and LaFell were in a system that wasn't good at all. Between Davidson and Clausen. They had some pretty good numbers.

While being Paranoid over Gettis and LaFell falling into the Colbert syndrome. I am more of the belief they are more in the mold of Holmes and Edwards and will continue to be productive.

While Rod Gardner was garbage for us. His numbers considering he was a problem child for Washington weren't too far off your List of Favorites. Which once again shows that Vets are not always the answer

In fact his Reception are nearly Identical to Holmes and Edwards in their 1st 4 season Gardner 227, Holmes 235, Edwards 228, Lloyd 128 (Gardner was with us his 5th season)

And we know how awesome Keyshawn was for us. Mr. Drop city. So the Vet Theory isn't Always a done deal. Once again. YOUR OPINION!!!!

2001 46 Rec 741 YD 4 TD

2002 71 Rec 1006 YD 8 TD

2003 59 Rec 600 YD 5 TD

2004 51 Rec 650 YD 5 TD

You can GFY with the little "more relevant" comment. Your theory is that. A theory. While others may agree with you more (Ivanthea$$kisser)than they do me. Doesn't make your Bull$hit theory any better. The numbers above prove that you don't need to be in the league 3 or 4 yrs to be productive as you so strongly insist in your OPINIONATED THEORY.

As far as Edit 2 goes. Show me where I have posted arguments to those ideas. Because you were right then doesn't make you right now. I am sure there are other comments you have posted that you are wrong. Please forgive me if I don't bow to your self-professed KNOWLEDGE of ALL which is exactly what Edit 2 implies.

[bleys]

lol.. right, because everything you just typed totally proves that bringing in receivers who have PROVEN themselves will totally diminish the growth of Gettis and LaFell..

and you wonder why your opinion is being criticized?

Holmes missed the 1st 4 games of the season and is one of the most clutch receivers in the league. Edwards is a major redzone threat and put up 7 TDs and doubled both of Gettis/LaFell's season last year. Brandon Lloyd (who no one has even brought up) put up a pro bowl season with 1448 yards and 11 TDs. If Gettis/LaFell EVER sniff anything close to that, they'll be proven.. Keyshawn Johnson came in and put up solid #2 numbers when he came here: PROVING this "vet theory", as you call it.

You can present all of this, as incredibly interesting as it is, but there's one problem..

you haven't even touched the topic at hand.. lmao

oh, and about "edit 2".. you still haven't proven that bringing in Vets will HINDER Gettis/LaFell, you didn't even present anything close to how this will occur.. so forgive me when I repeat myself:

"so with all said, Colbert/Carter come to mind knowing that we get to wait around and HOPE that your OPINION is based on something other than theory that Gettis/LaFell make it as offensive threats because somewhere in the universe you've come to the conclusion that wasting time is best for what could turn out to be mediocre talent.. when veterans will never hinder that talent."

oh, and one more thing.. Dave telling someone to go fug themselves after being criticized.. LOL. what else is new?!?!??! Over-react much Dave? grow some thicker skin for once! :)

[bleys]

where exactly did you address the point being raised?

way to totally disprove that bringing in receivers who have PROVEN themselves will totally diminish the growth of Gettis and LaFell..

also, way to sound stupid by trying to say Holmes (who missed 4 games last year) isn't one of the ELITE receivers in the league, or that Edwards isn't a MAJOR redzone threat scoring 7 TDs (because we don't need that), or that Lloyd (who NO ONE ever mentioned) had a Pro Bowl season putting up 11 TDs (again, highly unnecessary with our high octane offense ready to score on will) and 1,448 yards who can beat the secondary and run CRISP routes.. Yep, all your stats are right on point. How dare I have ever questioned the great Dave! lol

oh, and one more thing.. Dave telling someone to go f**k themselves after being criticized.. LOL. what else is new?!?!??! Over-react much Dave? grow some thicker skin for once!

so "edit 2" (as we are calling it) only further makes me feel this is just another stupid discussion with a fan who has no idea what he's trying to talk about when you wrote over 1,000,000 words and never address the ONLY point being raised.. ;)

oh, and Keyshawn put up solid #2 receiver yards at the age of 80.. way to prove "Vet Theory" wrong. lol

[DaCityKats]

i believe wright and martin are gone. their ST spots can be given to DB/ LB. With that being said Gettis/ Lafell would have to step up with extra comp. on the team.and if they cant they will get buried on the depth chart or cut.

thats part of the growth and maturation process beating out the comp they bring in.

[bleys]

i believe wright and martin are gone. their ST spots can be given to DB/ LB. With that being said Gettis/ Lafell would have to step up with extra comp. on the team.and if they cant they will get buried on the depth chart or cut.

thats part of the growth and maturation process beating out the comp they bring in.

say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

[Stroupe-a-loop]

I don't see how anybody can be against bringing in veteran receivers. I don't think we can replace Smitty through FA, but asking for Lafell, Gettis, and co. to do it alone is much worse. If we keep Smitty, then why not bring in one more guy to compete. I'm not sold on any FAs becoming number ones, but they could be good second or third options.

We brought in Kevin Dyson (I know) and Ricky Proehl in 2003 and Ricky was a huge part of the team for years. It didn't seem to effect the development of Steve Smith either.

[bleys]

I don't see how anybody can be against bringing in veteran receivers. I don't think we can replace Smitty through FA, but asking for Lafell, Gettis, and co. to do it alone is much worse. If we keep Smitty, then why not bring in one more guy to compete. I'm not sold on any FAs becoming number ones, but they could be good second or third options.

We brought in Kevin Dyson (I know) and Ricky Proehl in 2003 and Ricky was a huge part of the team for years. It didn't seem to effect the development of Steve Smith either.

of course it didn't..

although there are some #1 receivers in FA.. Santonio Holmes/Sidney Rice and Smitty with LaFell and Gettis, we would have some serious threats.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

of course it didn't..

although there are some #1 receivers in FA.. Santonio Holmes/Sidney Rice and Smitty with LaFell and Gettis, we would have some serious threats.

I would love Holme/Rice/(theother)Smith especially paired with Smitty, but I do not think any of them will get away from their respective teams. Rice is probably our best shot.

[bleys]

yeah, we'll see what happens. I'll be content as long as we make a real attempt.

[rayzor]

First of all both of you ignored "If Smitty stays" You make it sound as if my argument is that we are going in with 2nd year players ONLY.

nope. whether smitty stays or goes, we can't go into the season feeling content with or confident in gettis or lafell...esp. when we have cap space.

Why would after 10 yrs Smitty all of a sudden would "Not playing every game of the season" Unless Injured Smith will give 100%.

smith hasn't played a full season since 2005 and he's only done that twice in his career. most of it is due to injuries. he can't be counted on to play all 16 games in a season. being older only makes him more prone to injury. just being realistic.

Plan ahead and take advantage of Cap Space. You mean like Keyshawn Johnson or Rod Gardner? There is NO Guarantee that an experienced WR will do any better than what we currently have on our roster.

no...like ricky proehl, whom you mentioned. you can't avoid bringing talented FAs in because we have a good feeling about our 2 (or 3) very young WRs. if you have the need (which we do because we are far from set there) and we have cap space (which we will have tons of) then there is no reason to not address WR.

Both Gettis and LaFell did extremely well for rookies. I believe 5 and 6 in the group. What better way for Cam to grow then to have TWO WRs that will grow with him.

thats a nice thought....but you can't count on that happening and you can't act like it will. with a rookie QB picked #1 overall, you have to make sure he has the best targets available to throw to so that you can put that QB in a better situation.

While paranoia about Colbert is there. I don't see us throwing money at a WR that the parent team doesn't value enough to keep. If the individual WR isn't worth keeping on their current team. What makes him now a better option at #2 over Gettis and Lafell?

it isn't a matter of being worth keeping. not all teams are doing well on cap space so some of the available players will be cut loose because of that and because their team has greater needs elsewhere. it could also be that they aren't happy with the situation on their current team and don't have a desire to go back. there are quite a few reasons that these FAs are available beyond being "not worth keeping".

I don't see us cutting Edwards or Pilares. This forum has ranted and raved about, Trent Guy, Wallace Wright and my favorite to make the team Charly Martin. In fact, had Martin not got hurt last year he was going to make the squad. Plus C.M. reminds me alot of Ricky Proehl.

we won't cut edwards and pilares. saying that they will be fighting for the 5th or 6th spot on the active game day roster isn't saying that they could be cut. they would be essentially reserve players brought in each week depending on game planning or how well they develop.

guys like guy, wright, and martin are bubble players picked by a team with very little cap space and desperate for talent and having to scrape around for bargain talent. that isn't the panthers. i'll throw clowney in there as well.

we have the money. we have a staff that doesn't have anything invested in projects leftover from the previous coaching staff.

we all have had our long shot guys that we pull for who have a slim chance of really making it in the league. what i'm hoping and can see happening is that there will be such an influx of talent that these guys don't have a chance.

i don't care about the little engine that could. i don't care about our own personal rudy. i care about making this team as strong as possible and getting a ring for our players. the team is set up financially to make that happen and they have more than enough motivation and determination to make that happen.

[bleys]

This forum has ranted and raved about, Trent Guy, Wallace Wright and my favorite to make the team Charly Martin. In fact, had Martin not got hurt last year he was going to make the squad. Plus C.M. reminds me alot of Ricky Proehl.

I missed this... wtf? LOL

who in the hell really thinks any of those guys are worth a poo?

[rayzor]

I missed this... wtf? LOL

who in the hell really thinks any of those guys are worth a poo?

i thihnk it's every year there is a player or two who have bandwagon that gets excited about their potential. for me it was jason carter.

when the offense, esp. in this case WR, is looking bleak you are looking for every little glimmer of hope that comes hoping that one of these guys will become something special. that results in an abnormal amount of fanfare and even hype for players that really aren't deserving of it.

we have been forced to look for these "diamonds in the rough" because we had a coach who didn't value the passing game and we didn't have the cap space to bring in talent when it was needed and actually wanted. we have been forced to go cheap.

that isn't the case anymore. like the OP said, this team is set up to make a splash in the WR FA market and i hope, for the team's sake (not the sake of a couple fringe players) that we do.