Court engaged in "settlement talks", court-ordered mediation for next week cancelled!

[Tyler Durden]

Owners:

Players:

Most of America:

[twylyght]

And the NFL revenue has increased from 1.62 billion in 1995 to 9.3 billion in 2010. That's almost 600%.

So.....

With expenses increasing at least as dramatically. So....

And for anyone to think that the sole reason (or even the main reason can be argued) for the increase in revenue is due to the players should have their logic examined. If that were the case, then why didn't Johnny Unitas and Joe Montana make the league billions of dollars when they played?

Kill the goose that laid the golden egg much? Get ready, because that is exactly what is at work here.

[carolinarolls]

that increase was because the league was bringing in huge numbers and gaining more fans daily. and those players were the reason why, nobody goes to BofA stadium to see Jerry sit under a blanket in 80 degree weather.

Cannot give all the credit to the players alone. Coaches have a lot to do with it as well as medical staff, facility expenditures, and marketing efforts all converge to put butts in the seats and a product on the field.

Everyone bitches when tickets go up. Everyone bitches when vets are cut. Everyone bitches when we sit out of FA and lose.

Obviously money was an issue either now or forecasted on the horizon. The contract was honored and for the first time in as long as I can find the owners were who DO NOT share revenue like in the MLB decided to offer a different solution.

The players knew it would happen and insulated themselves with a litigious troublemaking grandstander to fight for them when the inevitable shat hit the proverbial fan.

What they did was a last resort. But the convos it has spawned here from slavery to socialism to the tail wagging the dog is what gets me a little heated.

No offense to anyone here but I will not agree with the workers here. I love our players and love the game but they are not idols to be worshipped more than the average worker out there facing the same tough times.

Their situation is far different from most of ours. But fundamentally I do not understand how anyone can believe that a situation where the owner of a company cannot lower or raise compensation as he sees it is necessary is not practical. Some posters have gotten caught up in this for their love of the game and made statements that they really do not agree with personally and I understand that too. Maybe now that it looks like there is an end close at hand this arguing can stop.

[carolinarolls]

"The Worst" so far has been mandatory vacation.

..if that makes you feel better

[weymouthst]

You cannot use this situation as a a comparison to the labor vs owner debate. These guys are payed above and beyond a fair amount. There is a fine line for these debates between the fight for laborers and the fight for greed.

Some players get multimillion dollar contracts, they have no room to complain when 95% of the rest of country is worse of then them.

Some players get paid reasonably, less than millions of dollars. They still make out OK, and their salaries reflect the kind of impact the position or player has.

Do not try and say that this spits in the face of laborers. That is bull.

And yes, we are capitalists. Labor gets paid less than the person with the idea or the company. If you don't like it, quit and find a different job or work for yourself.

When did this country turn into the country of entitlement? Why is everyone entitled to the same wages and benefits? It just doesn't work that way, because of many reasons.

A small business owner can't afford to give all of their employees the same wages, percentage of profits, full benefits for everyone. The numbers just aren't there.

If you want socialism, or communism, which lowers the economic disparity greatly, then you have to deal with the consequences. Do you like personal property? Do you like things like football, the NFL, where the best players play because of the payments they receive? A socialist NFL would be laughable. At first, you would see an exodus of the star players, then replacement players would come in, and you would have dumb downed football that wouldn't matter anymore.

Capitalism provides opportunity. You don't like your job? Get a new one. Start your own business. Capitalism does not benefit those who don't want to work. People work everyday, sure, but the vast majority like to hit the grind. Then, they get pissed off when other people work towards a higher calling, better wages, and more prestigious life.

Capitalism isn't perfect, but it allows the opportunity for people to better themselves. You work a 9-5 job, 5 days a week, for x years. You spend your wages towards a new car maybe, a house, a family, vacations, and at the end of one of those years you don't have too much left over, after taxes of course.

What are those? Those are decisions. You chose to buy the new car. The house, have the family. What else could you have done? You could have spent less, banked it, saved up, then reinvested it into starting a business, or putting it towards a new investment that could pay out big time. That is what people should do. But no, they spend all the money they earn on decisions, then complain when they hear that joe schmoe got rich from opening a new store by saving all his money.

So yeah, the whole idea that the players are the righteous labor force pisses me off.

[carolinarolls]

You cannot use this situation as a a comparison to the labor vs owner debate. These guys are payed above and beyond a fair amount. There is a fine line for these debates between the fight for laborers and the fight for greed.

Some players get multimillion dollar contracts, they have no room to complain when 95% of the rest of country is worse of then them.

Some players get paid reasonably, less than millions of dollars. They still make out OK, and their salaries reflect the kind of impact the position or player has.

Do not try and say that this spits in the face of laborers. That is bull.

And yes, we are capitalists. Labor gets paid less than the person with the idea or the company. If you don't like it, quit and find a different job or work for yourself.

When did this country turn into the country of entitlement? Why is everyone entitled to the same wages and benefits? It just doesn't work that way, because of many reasons.

A small business owner can't afford to give all of their employees the same wages, percentage of profits, full benefits for everyone. The numbers just aren't there.

If you want socialism, or communism, which lowers the economic disparity greatly, then you have to deal with the consequences. Do you like personal property? Do you like things like football, the NFL, where the best players play because of the payments they receive? A socialist NFL would be laughable. At first, you would see an exodus of the star players, then replacement players would come in, and you would have dumb downed football that wouldn't matter anymore.

Capitalism provides opportunity. You don't like your job? Get a new one. Start your own business. Capitalism does not benefit those who don't want to work. People work everyday, sure, but the vast majority like to hit the grind. Then, they get pissed off when other people work towards a higher calling, better wages, and more prestigious life.

Capitalism isn't perfect, but it allows the opportunity for people to better themselves. You work a 9-5 job, 5 days a week, for x years. You spend your wages towards a new car maybe, a house, a family, vacations, and at the end of one of those years you don't have too much left over, after taxes of course.

What are those? Those are decisions. You chose to buy the new car. The house, have the family. What else could you have done? You could have spent less, banked it, saved up, then reinvested it into starting a business, or putting it towards a new investment that could pay out big time. That is what people should do. But no, they spend all the money they earn on decisions, then complain when they hear that joe schmoe got rich from opening a new store by saving all his money.

So yeah, the whole idea that the players are the righteous labor force pisses me off.

exactly this

[Stroupe-a-loop]

..if that makes you feel better

I feel, as a group, we use too many ellipses.

[carolinarolls]

I feel, as a group, we use too many ellipses.

OK.

I agree.

Why is a mandatory vacation getting so much heat and getting everyone so worried? I think we all know its a bit more than a vacation.

[4Corners]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/03/nfl-lawyer-says-lockout-could-last-at-least-a-year/

from pft so take with a grain of salt

[Tyler Durden]

the wall of text a few posts above really ignores the fact that not everyone is afforded the same opportunities that the average person said wall of text describes is afforded...

btw... these players are taking advantage of their skills and pursuing a career of their choosing, and are doing exactly what you describe in trying to make it better for themselves...

also, you ignore the fact that without football, these folks might not have too much else to fall back on, skill wise, and that is a product of the system they were pushed through to get where they are...

[Stroupe-a-loop]

I think it's funny for people to talk about this dispute like it's somehow subverting the American dream. All this talk of the risk of the owners is silly. Who has is been a bad investment for? How many current owners simply inherited a billion dollar franchise? Why don't they all just get out of it immediately if it's so bad.

The players aren't doing anything illegal. They aren't blackmailing anybody. They have legal recourses and they are exercising them to gain better leverage in a negotiation. That's also a part of capitalism. When a corporation does something questionable and then succeeds through a loophole in the legal system, they are apparently working in the Glorious Framework of the Founding Fathers and in the interest of America. But when a group of employees do it, they are just a bunch of greedy individuals acting in self interest.

Justify your side all you want, but in the end it's just two sides trying negotiate the best deal possible in their own self interest.

[jtm]

This debate is like trying to convince a democrat why he should be a republican and vice versa. At the end of the day you have a great debate and get all riled up and don't end up changing anyone's mind. People that support unions don't support wealthy owners. Wealthy owners don't support unions. Not saying one is right over the other - just what you believe.

Some people philosophically feel that they are entitled to certain things and the rest of us feel like you need to go out and earn it. Just basic fundamentals and people are split pretty close to 50/50 on this issue. I for one agree with Carolinarolls and others and will NEVER support the players (employees) in this matter. I am in the other 50% if you will.

By the way, someone mentioned that it isn't risky for owners to take risk with tax subsidized stadiums. Surely people in Charlotte haven't already forgotten the Charlotte Motor Speedway saga. If you don't provide stadiums, someone else will.

[carolinarolls]

the wall of text a few posts above really ignores the fact that not everyone is afforded the same opportunities that the average person said wall of text describes is afforded...

btw... these players are taking advantage of their skills and pursuing a career of their choosing, and are doing exactly what you describe in trying to make it better for themselves...

also, you ignore the fact that without football, these folks might not have too much else to fall back on, skill wise, and that is a product of the system they were pushed through to get where they are...

So given the education system is flawed. Do the owners of professional sports teams bear all of the burden to provide an avenue for these kids, i.e. the unfortunate prey of our broken society, to buy all the things rappers, actors, and drug dealers have?

I think not. The owners have a right to protect what they have built and given the fact that there are hundreds of players cut every year who are a modicum at most less effective during training camp who would be happy to work for a mere half mill or mill a year, the owners are standing firm.

IMO their decision is the lesser of two evils and I support it.

[ElIngeniero]

I'm pretty sure someone else already mentioned this...but the NFL model is more comparable to a socialist government than a capitalist one.

Some of you should really take a break from Fox News.