In this thread I compare the Panthers and Giants drafting, 2002-2009

[bleys]

You mean like signing a 33 year old QB to 5 year 42 million dollar contract extension after one of the worst playoff performances in the history of the NFL? I would agree that was an unwise decision based on emotion instead of reality. I still don't understand why he wasn't allowed to play his last year out and then decide what to do with him.

Also, if you are going to continue stating that you want your team to be built through the draft and then trade your away your first round pick two years in a row and your second the next, I would argue you are somewhat confused.

I am not trying to argue that Hurney is a horrible GM, I think he is competent. But trying to argue that he is one of best in the league is also laughable. I think he did a pretty good job up until 2008, but since then not so much. I don't know how much of his decisions since 2008 have been based on marching orders or his own free-will, but either way this team has not been the best managed team as of late.

you mean Delhomme getting an extension that paid out 12 million for ONE reason, to lower the cap. invalid point you're trying to raise. It is also clear that JR sent the command down that we are letting Fox stay 1 more year, however, he isn't running this team anymore.

To include Hurney, you must remember Fox had complete say so. They worked as a team, and it's evident that Hurney let Fox have his way from time to time. Ring any bells with why Delhomme might stick around?

also, Delhomme had 1 horrible game.. yes, you can act like it was obvious, but you're only valid point is to use hindsight. And for those who get to sit on a coach, it's easy for you to act like you know what you're talking about.

the 1st traded pick in '08 was a good move. I would have preferred us to grab Otah and then pick up Forte or Ray Rice, but we didn't do that. They made up their minds they were going to get back into a smash mouth run game, and they accomplished that. DWill had not stepped up as a starter and everyone and their mama was concerned if we had a RB who could play all game, so to point out DWill's accomplishment after the fact is useless, just like talking about the Delhomme extension.

We traded the next 1st round pick for a 2nd and 4th. Brown hasn't exactly panned out, but we did get a solid RB in Goodson. You win some, you lose some. That same rule applies to even the great GMs.

it's pretty easy to understand why Delhomme wasn't allowed to finish his last year. JR sent the command down to prepare for the future and lockout. Take that up with JR.

Hurney has done well in the draft even after 2008, so to pretend he hasn't is laughable.

Maybe "Great" isn't a word you prefer, but I'll stick with him over 20 other GM's.. to argue Hurney isn't a top 10 GM is laughable and those saying his moves have been equal to good -vs- bad is laughable..

I feel pretty certain he's better than Top 10, but I'm not interested in getting overly technical on an exact number...

[Fiz]

Forget it.

It's new people with the same argument given worse each round.

[CRA]

you mean Delhomme getting an extension that paid out 12 million for ONE reason, to lower the cap. invalid point you're trying to raise. It is also clear that JR sent the command down that we are letting Fox stay 1 more year, however, he isn't running this team anymore.

To include Hurney, you must remember Fox had complete say so. They worked as a team, and it's evident that Hurney let Fox have his way from time to time. Ring any bells with why Delhomme might stick around?

also, Delhomme had 1 horrible game.. yes, you can act like it was obvious, but you're only valid point is to use hindsight. And for those who get to sit on a coach, it's easy for you to act like you know what you're talking about.the 1st traded pick in '08 was a good move. I would have preferred us to grab Otah and then pick up Forte or Ray Rice, but we didn't do that. They made up their minds they were going to get back into a smash mouth run game, and they accomplished that. DWill had not stepped up as a starter and everyone and their mama was concerned if we had a RB who could play all game, so to point out DWill's accomplishment after the fact is useless, just like talking about the Delhomme extension.

We traded the next 1st round pick for a 2nd and 4th. Brown hasn't exactly panned out, but we did get a solid RB in Goodson. You win some, you lose some. That same rule applies to even the great GMs.

it's pretty easy to understand why Delhomme wasn't allowed to finish his last year. JR sent the command down to prepare for the future and lockout. Take that up with JR.

Hurney has done well in the draft even after 2008, so to pretend he hasn't is laughable.

Maybe "Great" isn't a word you prefer, but I'll stick with him over 20 other GM's.. to argue Hurney isn't a top 10 GM is laughable and those saying his moves have been equal to good -vs- bad is laughable..

I feel pretty certain he's better than Top 10, but I'm not interested in getting overly technical on an exact number...

To be fair, Jake had more than just one bad game in 08. Tampa? Oak? 2008 was all about a video game like running attack.....

[bleys]

Delhomme had some bad games.. I was addressing his horrible game.

fans were used to Delhomme having a few bad games. he was a vet and our only stability. No one ever expected Fox to groom a new QB, and there is a reason Fox isn't here. While Hurney still has a job.

[bleys]

Forget it.

It's new people with the same argument given worse each round.

very true.

everything has been explained. I guess until someone wants to point out something relevant against those points, simply go back a page or two for a rebuttal.

[DaCityKats]

then we have a lot of non-panther fans roaming around... for someone to say the delhomme extension was a bad move makes me think people are failing to understand everything that lead up to said extension.

extending Delhomme was a move to create cap space. so how that was a bad move is beyond me. I'm waiting for someone to explain this to me rather than be vague with no points made..

just saying Hurney didn't handle the cap well is totally inaccurate because to make that point you have to ignore a bigger issue known as the Peppers saga. and to say Hurney wasn't between a rock and a hard place isn't accurate.

and if you think he could have handled it better, please please please explain what you think he should have done?

it was bad because we should have never been put into that situation. why prolong the great migration of JP when you knew you wasnt going to keep him for one year only? just let him walk and not tag him considering you didnt trade him.

and if handling the cap was his forte, than why would you allow yourself to be close to the celling of that cap anyways? i know we needed the cap space, but rewarding someone after a performance like that is :puke:

its ok to disagree with some of the moves the fo makes.

[d-run]

I guess I should have known better than to get involved in a Fiz and Bleys tag team match

[DaCityKats]

and how could obtaining a super bowl qb be a push between the 2 draft classes?

[bleys]

it was bad because we should have never been put into that situation. why prolong the great migration of JP when you knew you wasnt going to keep him for one year only? just let him walk and not tag him considering you didnt trade him.

and if handling the cap was his forte, than why would you allow yourself to be close to the celling of that cap anyways? i know we needed the cap space, but rewarding someone after a performance like that is :puke:

its ok to disagree with some of the moves the fo makes.

now you do realize we were 20 mil under the cap giving us the space to try to keep Pep 1 more year. that's a huge contradiction stated there..

but I'll play.. we were near 20 mil under the cap and just came from the having a playoff bye. and if the cap wasn't his forte, how did he find cap space? lol

also, it's been pointed out that letting Peppers walk was not a good idea considering we had no replacements to fill in of his caliber. Without Peppers, you have Brayton and a young Charles Johnson.

without defensive pressure, you're secondary is going to get burned. without a defense, we aren't making the playoffs. And without making the playoffs: Fox got fired.

I can't spell it out any clearer. Fox was on his last leg and they went all in. Hurney is a team guy, he and Fox had a long partnership. Either they go all in or the team was getting revamped anyhow.

Either/or. and having just went to the playoffs, you need to keep your all-pro DE to try to repeat, which Fox never had accomplished.

btw, I have disagreed with a lot of FO moves over the years. don't try playing that card, it's a bad hand.

I guess I should have known better than to get involved in a Fiz and Bleys tag team match

straight facts homie. ;)

[Stroupe-a-loop]

and how could obtaining a super bowl qb be a push between the 2 draft classes?

Imma go ahead and say Eli Manning didn't single handily win that Super Bowl.

[CRA]

Imma go ahead and say Eli Manning didn't single handily win that Super Bowl.

but that has nothing to do w/ the comment. Giants drafted Eli and Snee that year......7 years he has been the QB in NY (1 losing season, rookie season). Regardless of what you think of Eli they found a QB that has allowed the team to compete consistantly.

he was simply pointing out the Panther bias to the breakdown.

[DaCityKats]

now you do realize we were 20 mil under the cap giving us the space to try to keep Pep 1 more year. that's a huge contradiction stated there..

but I'll play.. we were near 20 mil under the cap and just came from the having a playoff bye. and if the cap wasn't his forte, how did he find cap space? lol

also, it's been pointed out that letting Peppers walk was not a good idea considering we had no replacements to fill in of his caliber. Without Peppers, you have Brayton and a young Charles Johnson.

without defensive pressure, you're secondary is going to get burned. without a defense, we aren't making the playoffs. And without making the playoffs: Fox got fired.

I can't spell it out any clearer. Fox was on his last leg and they went all in. Hurney is a team guy, he and Fox had a long partnership. Either they go all in or the team was getting revamped anyhow.

Either/or. and having just went to the playoffs, you need to keep your all-pro DE to try to repeat, which Fox never had accomplished.

btw, I have disagreed with a lot of FO moves over the years. don't try playing that card, it's a bad hand.

straight facts homie. ;)

but when 18 million is going to one guy you are at the celling. that leaves 2 million to sign picks and FA. so how is that contradiction, when you knew you had to tag him and that he would take up 18 million?

considering we let him walk the following year, we could have bought some de help but just a year earlier. i know how defense works.

that last excuse was terrible, all in for fox last year. but that wasnt his last year.

[DaCityKats]

Imma go ahead and say Eli Manning didn't single handily win that Super Bowl.

no, but he was the qb of that team. advantage giants.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

but that has nothing to do w/ the comment. Giants drafted Eli and Snee that year......7 years he has been the QB in NY (1 losing season, rookie season). Regardless of what you think of Eli they found a QB that has allowed the team to compete consistantly.

he was simply pointing out the Panther bias to the breakdown.

Eli has been a slightly above average quarterback overall. I wouldn't call him the reason that team competes consistently by any stretch.