In this thread I compare the Panthers and Giants drafting, 2002-2009

[bleys]

Honestly I don't think anyone could live up to Hoov in Panther Fan's eyes. First half of last year Fiammetta was leveling people. As the season got worse it was harder to see him do anything special. That said he has much more physical ability (IMO) that Hoov ever did and if he can keep improving he will be an exceptional FB.

and people seriously want to replace him? this forum.. fuging clueless.

[Fiz]

and people seriously want to replace him? this forum.. fuging clueless.

the best thing about this forum is it keeps dipshit panther fans on the internet in one place

better here than all over the internet

it's like a hampsterdam

[Gipetto]

[bleys]

the best thing about this forum is it keeps dipshit panther fans on the internet in one place

better here than all over the internet

it's like a hampsterdam

so it comes down to the few who must educate the masses.. you have to assume there is a brilliant business venture located within these walls.

aside from nuking the place...

[thefuzz]

Surely, but this thread was spawned from an argument about how Hurney has stacked up with other teams in the league. CRA's position is that if you take away the first round, he sucks in the proceeding rounds.

Not exactly true compared to the Giants. they're about on par.

As far as signing free agents and working contracts, Hurney is a wizard.

I respect the work that you put in to break down the drafts, but I have to disagree with you on this one point.

As for the contract wizzard, we had to sign Jake to an extension he didn't earn because we were in salary cap hell.

And I am not sure about any of our FA signings, but whatever, I am a glass half empty guy with Hurney.

[CatMan72]

I thought the Eli trade was a bad move, they had a better QB in Rivers and should have stuck with him and kept their pics.

I don't label 7th round pics as "busts" when they don't work out. By definition, guys who are drafted in the 7th round have very little chance of making the team they are drafted by, much less becoming a contributor.

[bleys]

I respect the work that you put in to break down the drafts, but I have to disagree with you on this one point.

As for the contract wizzard, we had to sign Jake to an extension he didn't earn because we were in salary cap hell.

And I am not sure about any of our FA signings, but whatever, I am a glass half empty guy with Hurney.

that's not because Hurney sucked at the cap.. that's because they royally fuged up with Peppers. They should have traded him a year before.

then again, I'm not so sure they had many options when it came to Peppers other than let him walk 1 year earlier.

[thefuzz]

that's not because Hurney sucked at the cap.. that's because they royally fuged up with Peppers. They should have traded him a year before.

then again, I'm not so sure they had many options when it came to Peppers other than let him walk 1 year earlier.

It's still Hurney's mess.

Think back to Jared Allen in Kansas City.

[Fiz]

It's dumb to place the blame for Peppers on one person. After 2008 the Panthers obviously believed (and rightly so) they were in position to make another run in the playoffs. They couldn't trade Peppers, and if they let him walk they'd only get a 3rd. Sure, they overpaid Jake Delhomme, but in the end it didn't mean anything.

They had no way of knowing that Jake had melted down and would never be the same.

The only other alternatives to the Peppers mess were to trade him after he vanished in 2007, let him walk after 2008, or trade him during the holdout pre-2009. Hurney was put between a rock and a hard place due to the fact Peppers decided he was done with Carolina, and no amount of money would change his mind. There wasn't a good choice to be made.

That's also why they drafted Everette Brown. They had to have some kind of insurance in case Peppers was real, and thought that the ACC's sack leader could provide that.

Then again it turned into the worst of all worlds.

Jake collapsed

Brown was terrible (and still is)

The season was ruined

And at the end of the day Peppers left anyway.

[Fiz]

like why am I able to break these things down and none of you are

[thefuzz]

It's dumb to place the blame for Peppers on one person. After 2008 the Panthers obviously believed (and rightly so) they were in position to make another run in the playoffs. They couldn't trade Peppers, and if they let him walk they'd only get a 3rd. Sure, they overpaid Jake Delhomme, but in the end it didn't mean anything.

They had no way of knowing that Jake had melted down and would never be the same.

The only other alternatives to the Peppers mess were to trade him after he vanished in 2007, let him walk after 2008, or trade him during the holdout pre-2009. Hurney was put between a rock and a hard place due to the fact Peppers decided he was done with Carolina, and no amount of money would change his mind. There wasn't a good choice to be made.

That's also why they drafted Everette Brown. They had to have some kind of insurance in case Peppers was real, and thought that the ACC's sack leader could provide that.

Then again it turned into the worst of all worlds.

Jake collapsed

Brown was terrible (and still is)

The season was ruined

And at the end of the day Peppers left anyway.

I'm not denying any of this, and I remember it very well. But to say that Hurney is not to blame for this, and the cap problems that followed is just not right. If you give him credit for the good stuff, he has to be held accountable for the bad.

IMO he is not a great cap manager, average at best in that dept.

And his free agency signings, have been close to horrible, as of late.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

It's dumb to place the blame for Peppers on one person. After 2008 the Panthers obviously believed (and rightly so) they were in position to make another run in the playoffs. They couldn't trade Peppers, and if they let him walk they'd only get a 3rd. Sure, they overpaid Jake Delhomme, but in the end it didn't mean anything.

They had no way of knowing that Jake had melted down and would never be the same.

The only other alternatives to the Peppers mess were to trade him after he vanished in 2007, let him walk after 2008, or trade him during the holdout pre-2009. Hurney was put between a rock and a hard place due to the fact Peppers decided he was done with Carolina, and no amount of money would change his mind. There wasn't a good choice to be made.

That's also why they drafted Everette Brown. They had to have some kind of insurance in case Peppers was real, and thought that the ACC's sack leader could provide that.

Then again it turned into the worst of all worlds.

Jake collapsed

Brown was terrible (and still is)

The season was ruined

And at the end of the day Peppers left anyway.

I agree and understand Hurney was put in a tough situation, but that is probably because I like Hurney and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt due to his overall performance as general manager.

If I wanted him fired, I would bring up the same points and say that he got the absolute least he could for a player in his prime at a premium position, and then incorrectly evaluated two other players also at premium positions and overpaid for them (money for Jake and and draft resources for Brown). It's a valid criticism.

[Fiz]

I'm not denying any of this, and I remember it very well. But to say that Hurney is not to blame for this, and the cap problems that followed is just not right. If you give him credit for the good stuff, he has to be held accountable for the bad.

What cap problems?

The defense was fantastic in 2009. Everything but Jake on the other side of the ball was great. They couldn't sign any free agents but where do you add someone? Okay yeah maybe the DT position could have used some help but good god every team has needs and bitching at him because we didn't have pro bowlers at every position is stupid.

Don't forget also that Gamble was resigned during the 2008 season, and Gross had to be resigned afterwards. Certainly you don't fault him for that, do you?

Basically if 2009 didn't fall apart, they likely would have made the playoffs and no one would remember anything about cap problems. Instead, they'd remember that just like every other year they went to the playoffs, the Panthers were at their cap limit.

And his free agency signings, have been close to horrible, as of late.

Which as of late? Are you really furious about Jeremy Shockey? Or him brining back Moose? Or have any of the filler free agents brought in to play special teams really pissed you off?

[hank pimple butt]

2007:

Beason - Huge pick for us as he's a great player and a leader. 9/10 pick, 10/10 if you include the trade

Jarrett - the Clausen of WR 2/10

Kalil - great player but we need to keep him. 7/10 for now but if he stays with us for a second contract it moves to 8 and if he has Jeff Saturday longevity its a 9.5

Charles Johnson - another excellent pick. 8/10

Ryne - I know you liked him Fiz, I actually did too but ultimately he never showed anything in real games (he wasn't a good PR but had potential as a slot imo) before the injury. 2/10

Rosario - Unfulfilled potential but he's still had those flashes and that's not bad for a 5th. 5/10

Shaw - cut after a year 1/10

CJ Wilson - like him but he hasnt shown much on the field 2/10

the fact that you gave Jarrett a 2/10 instead of a 0/10 takes away all your credibility