Greg Cosell talks about Clausen

[MaineManPanther]

Um, did you watch Clausen at Notre Dame? Yes, Clausen occassionally threw long passes but for the most part Weiss had him throwing screens, checking down, and letting the WRs/RBs do the work after the catch.

You can still find footage of Clausen at ND....and he played just like he did as a rookie in the NFL. Only difference is you can get away with that nonsense in college.

Stats lie. Clausen was primarely a dink and dunker at ND who made his OL look worse than they were.

I did and that is not accurate in 2009 Clasuen had 48 passing plays that went more then 20 yards, averaged 38.1 yards, and accounted for 43.5 percent of there passing offence.

There were big plays made by his WR's. But numerous of them was Clausen airing it deep. This doesn't even factor the number of times Jimmy attmpted to throw it deep but resulted in a incomplete.

And the tape will show Clasuen frequentley airing it deep. To say he play just like he did in carolina is incorrect.

No he wasn't, there is no way your a 'dink and dunker' and get season average of 8.7.

You say stats lie, yet use the stat of wins, a stat that repersents a entire team and use it judge one player.

When Clausen has a winning record in high school you give credit to having a more talented team. Yet when Clausen loses because of having a less talented team, it on him?

[CRA]

I did and that is not accurate in 2009 Clasuen had 48 passing plays that went more then 20 yards, averaged 38.1 yards, and accounted for 43.5 percent of there passing offence.

There were big plays made by his WR's. But numerous of them was Clausen airing it deep. This doesn't even factor the number of times Jimmy attmpted to throw it deep but resulted in a incomplete.

And the tape will show Clasuen frequentley airing it deep. To say he play just like he did in carolina is incorrect.

No he wasn't, there is no way your a 'dink and dunker' and get season average of 8.7.

You say stats lie, yet use the stat of wins, a stat that repersents a entire team and use it judge one player.

When Clausen has a winning record in high school you give credit to having a more talented team. Yet when Clausen loses because of having a less talented team, it on him?

Incorrect, the tape shows Clausen playing in Weiss' WCO style offense he adapted for Clausen. The games PRIMALRLY have Clausen thrownig screens and thrownig quick short routes. Clausen and Weiss have both spoken on that.....and the games support that.

Yes, a dink and dunker CAN get 8.7. Clausen did in college. I never say Clausen never threw a deep ball....so don't bring that hyperbole. His stats came from the short stuff. He played at Notre Dame EXACTLY like he did as a rookie. Same throws, same mindset.

Clausen played on a stacked HS team against joke schools and kids w/ no talent. It was comical.

Clausen didn't win in college....and didn't beat a single legit team. There are no decent NFL QBs that did squat like Clausen. Nitpicking a stat line is pointless when all you do is lose unless odds are stacked in your favor.

[jarhead]

See, what I find weird about that is...

Didn't Gruden say (along with 99% of analysts) that Jimmy Clausen had the best mechanics of anyone in the draft last year? Their knocks on him were about his character... not his arm. :confused:

Yea alot of the same ones that thought Clausen wes the "most NFL ready" are backing off there stance prior to last years draft.

That is why it is so easy to be a talking head versus a owner,coach or GM who have to live with there decisions.

[MaineManPanther]

Incorrect, the tape shows Clausen playing in Weiss' WCO style offense he adapted for Clausen. The games PRIMALRLY have Clausen thrownig screens and thrownig quick short routes. Clausen and Weiss have both spoken on that.....and the games support that.

Yes, a dink and dunker CAN get 8.7. Clausen did in college. I never say Clausen never threw a deep ball....so don't bring that hyperbole. His stats came from the short stuff. He played at Notre Dame EXACTLY like he did as a rookie. Same throws, same mindset.

Clausen played on a stacked HS team against joke schools and kids w/ no talent. It was comical.

Clausen didn't win in college....and didn't beat a single legit team. There are no decent NFL QBs that did squat like Clausen. Nitpicking a stat line is pointless when all you do is lose unless odds are stacked in your favor.

This offence was not as heavy screen or short YAC plays as your suggesting. It did implent them but not to the extent of a WCO,

http://smartfootball.com/offense/charlie-weis-the-sequel

I expect Charlie’s offense at Florida to actually be less of the go-for-broke-let’s-hit-the-home-run fest it became under Clausen. At that stage it had become so erratic that either Clausen, Tate, and Floyd shredded you for big plays or they failed to connect, often in critical situations — it had a Madden-esque feel to it by the end

I expect Charlie’s offense to look much like it did at Notre Dame, though, at least in the early days, there will likely be more of an emphasis on screen passes than downfield shots. But when he does throw downfield, you can expect to see the old favorites: quick slants, stick concepts, deep “go” routes, and the deep cross. Indeed, the deep cross was a feature play of his both at Notre Dame

http://clashmoremike.com/2009/01/offensive-philosophy-and-play-calling-the-weisian-approach/

Weis frequently takes chances down field or with some trickery in order to keep defenses honest

http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2011/3/15/2052310/the-charlie-weis-offense-whatever-that-is-a-brief-primer

The deep ball was a special feature of his Notre Dame offenses, but with Floyd and Tate and Clausen's ability to throw the nine route it only made sense. Double move routes, an unheard of tactic under Addazio, will be common.

Weis ran a varation of the Erhardt-Perkins offence at Notre Dame. Remeber the reports of Fox and Davidson stating the familarity Clasuen would have with Carolina offence? No coincdence, Carolina also ran the (granted a different varation) Erhardt-Perkins.

A offence involves a decent mix of horizoantal and vertical passing but lean to vertical. Which they did.

http://clashmoremike.com/2008/12/year-end-notre-dame-offensive-statistical-review/

A seemingly strong start to the 2008 campaign marked by improved protection of quarterback Jimmy Clausen, a dynamic vertical passing game, and several wins, faded with underwhelming performances against North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Boston College, Syracuse, and USC.

The Irish managed wins against subpar competition using their only weapon, throwing the ball down the field against one-on-one coverage. It wasn’t clever or well-crafted, but it was often effective as the Irish had a clear talent advantage against nearly every team they faced.

http://clashmoremike.com/2009/12/how-good-are-the-irish-a-year-end-offensive-statistical-review/#comment-4289

In fact in 2008 fans were upset specifically because the team relied to much on the big throws and struggled with the short offence.

There is no debating Clausen had a losing record, we agree on that. The argument Im making is, is Clausen the reason for that? If not, then the losing stat isnt a good idicator of how well he was as a college player.

He had a bad defence, bad playcalling/coaching, running game and pass blocking. Not many college QB's, if any have managed to get a winning record with that.

[scpanther22]

Um, did you watch Clausen at Notre Dame? Yes, Clausen occassionally threw long passes but for the most part Weiss had him throwing screens, checking down, and letting the WRs/RBs do the work after the catch.

You can still find footage of Clausen at ND....and he played just like he did as a rookie in the NFL. Only difference is you can get away with that nonsense in college.

Stats lie. Clausen was primarely a dink and dunker at ND who made his OL look worse than they were.

He made them look worse? from what I remember his Oline was terrible..I think the LT was drafted by the cowboys in the 7th round.

[MaineManPanther]

The o-line wasn't awful but it was bad. They weren't highly talented and Weis frequentley chose to pass instead of run so they didn't keep the defence honest.

[CRA]

He made them look worse? from what I remember his Oline was terrible..I think the LT was drafted by the cowboys in the 7th round.

You can put David Carr behind the best OL in the NFL and magically they will start to have a lot of "new issues"......

Clausen is the same way, he can't play in the pocket and is an OLs worst nightmare. However good or bad an OL is he will make them worse....saw it at ND and Carolina

[CRA]

This offence was not as heavy screen or short YAC plays as your suggesting. It did implent them but not to the extent of a WCO,

http://smartfootball.com/offense/charlie-weis-the-sequel

http://clashmoremike.com/2009/01/offensive-philosophy-and-play-calling-the-weisian-approach/

http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2011/3/15/2052310/the-charlie-weis-offense-whatever-that-is-a-brief-primer

Weis ran a varation of the Erhardt-Perkins offence at Notre Dame. Remeber the reports of Fox and Davidson stating the familarity Clasuen would have with Carolina offence? No coincdence, Carolina also ran the (granted a different varation) Erhardt-Perkins.

A offence involves a decent mix of horizoantal and vertical passing but lean to vertical. Which they did.

http://clashmoremike.com/2008/12/year-end-notre-dame-offensive-statistical-review/

http://clashmoremike.com/2009/12/how-good-are-the-irish-a-year-end-offensive-statistical-review/#comment-4289

In fact in 2008 fans were upset specifically because the team relied to much on the big throws and struggled with the short offence.

There is no debating Clausen had a losing record, we agree on that. The argument Im making is, is Clausen the reason for that? If not, then the losing stat isnt a good idicator of how well he was as a college player.

He had a bad defence, bad playcalling/coaching, running game and pass blocking. Not many college QB's, if any have managed to get a winning record with that.

You are cutting and pasting from articles were people make assumptions about what ND would do.

Weiss did run a variation of a West Coast offense for Clausen at Notre Dame. Clausen and Weiss both admit to it and the emphasis on Clausen dink and dunking.

Winning is all that matters and a good NFL QBs won and beat teams in college. With Clausen people always make excuse after excuse after excuse. Cam Newton walked onto one of the worst teams in the SEC last year and he turned them around and won......QB play. In college a realy good QB will win games and beat teams regardless of scenario. Clausen wasn't very good at ND....and his stats are misleading under Weiss. IMO.

Name a game in college where Clausen impressed you and looked like a great QB. I bet you can't....what you will do is look at a stat sheet and pick a game where he statistcally looked great.....

[CarolinaKat]

Name a game in college where Clausen impressed you and looked like a great QB. I bet you can't....what you will do is look at a stat sheet and pick a game where he statistcally looked great.....

:beatdeadhorse5:

[MaineManPanther]

You are cutting and pasting from articles were people make assumptions about what ND would do.

Weiss did run a variation of a West Coast offense for Clausen at Notre Dame. Clausen and Weiss both admit to it and the emphasis on Clausen dink and dunking.

Winning is all that matters and a good NFL QBs won and beat teams in college. With Clausen people always make excuse after excuse after excuse. Cam Newton walked onto one of the worst teams in the SEC last year and he turned them around and won......QB play. In college a realy good QB will win games and beat teams regardless of scenario. Clausen wasn't very good at ND....and his stats are misleading under Weiss. IMO.

Name a game in college where Clausen impressed you and looked like a great QB. I bet you can't....what you will do is look at a stat sheet and pick a game where he statistcally looked great.....

Your free to read the whole atricles. All the statments were made after the 2009 and/or 2008 season and simply stated/noted what they all saw when Notre Dame played. Not some random assumptions about the future. And what did these several unaffilated people witness? A vertical passing attack. That did not rely primarly on short throws but deep passess (didn't rely quite as much in 09, but still a big part of there gameplan) .

Can you show me a article or video where Weis and/or Clausen admitted it was west coast offence?

Weis learned under that (erdhart perkins) offence, and implemented it in every team he coached before and after Notre Dame.

To really think he suddnley changed from a offence that gave him so much success , to a whole new offence he didn't have any ties to and implented it his first head coach job is a bit over the top. That would make no sence and didn't happen.

Add to the fact that both Fox and Davidson stated Clasuen would be going to a very similar offence that he was in college.

Excuses imply the reason is not strong enough and could have been avoided. A combination of bad defence, bad coaching, and lack of run game are not some lame exuces but legitmate reasons why a team would have a bad record. What did Clasuen do that heavily contributed to Notre Dame's loss record?

In college a realy good QB will win games and beat teams regardless of scenario.

So Elway wasn't a really good college QB? Losing record, never led his team to a bowl game. Clausen isn't Elway, but the example shows that you can be a great Qb in college, but that doesn't garuntee wins.

[MaineManPanther]

kyy

[CRA]

Weis learned under that (erdhart perkins) offence, and implemented it in every team he coached before and after Notre Dame.

To really think he suddnley changed from a offence that gave him so much success , to a whole new offence he didn't have any ties to and implented it his first head coach job is a bit over the top. That would make no sence and didn't happen.

Add to the fact that both Fox and Davidson stated Clasuen would be going to a very similar offence that he was in college.

Excuses imply the reason is not strong enough and could have been avoided. A combination of bad defence, bad coaching, and lack of run game are not some lame exuces but legitmate reasons why a team would have a bad record. What did Clasuen do that heavily contributed to Notre Dame's loss record?

So Elway wasn't a really good college QB? Losing record, never led his team to a bowl game. Clausen isn't Elway, but the example shows that you can be a great Qb in college, but that doesn't garuntee wins.

So Elway wasn't a really good college QB? Losing record, never led his team to a bowl game. Clausen isn't Elway, but the example shows that you can be a great Qb in college, but that doesn't garuntee wins.

Weiss ran a variation of a WCO for Clausen....he didn't run a true WCO. It was smart.....he had to do it b/c of Clausen's skill set.

There was a lot of similar verbage and it was a pro style offense. It was NOT the same offense Clausen ran at ND. He was asked to make different throws and that make a HUGE difference.

again, excuses....in college, great QBs find ways to win. In college not only didn't win but he never beat one legit team. There is no great NFL QB who not only lost in college AND didn't beat anyone worth a poot. There are tons of great NFL QBs who were the team in college and made up for a weak cast on offense and defense. That doesn't mean they will win them all....but they do stick to it some legit teams. Clausen never did diddly poo. Even in high school his his "accomplishments" are weak.

LOL, Elway? Elway's greatest win wasn't against a team comparable to Hawaii. Elway's senior season he beat the #2 and #13 ranked teams in the nation. There is no QB worth a poot who lost in college AND never beat a legit team. Comical to suggest Elway's meets that criteria.

[MaineManPanther]

Weiss ran a variation of a WCO for Clausen....he didn't run a true WCO. It was smart.....he had to do it b/c of Clausen's skill set.

There was a lot of similar verbage and it was a pro style offense. It was NOT the same offense Clausen ran at ND. He was asked to make different throws and that make a HUGE difference.

again, excuses....in college, great QBs find ways to win. In college not only didn't win but he never beat one legit team. There is no great NFL QB who not only lost in college AND didn't beat anyone worth a poot. There are tons of great NFL QBs who were the team in college and made up for a weak cast on offense and defense. That doesn't mean they will win them all....but they do stick to it some legit teams. Clausen never did diddly poo. Even in high school his his "accomplishments" are weak.

LOL, Elway? Elway's greatest win wasn't against a team comparable to Hawaii. Elway's senior season he beat the #2 and #13 ranked teams in the nation. There is no QB worth a poot who lost in college AND never beat a legit team. Comical to suggest Elway's meets that criteria.

You said they admitted to it. Do you have proof that they said that?

If anything it was reverse, when Clausen came in they threw significanlty more deep plays and bascially relied on that to win them games in 08.

Its naive to think he would change a enitre offence he's never coached to suit one player. His system was already complex enough, and now all the players on his team are suddlenley going to have to drop that, and learn another complex one for one QB? He wouldve been risking to much and hurting Clasuen not helping him.

Yes, but why did he have a losing record? He was a great Qb so shouldn't he have led his team to just one bowl game, have one more win over .500? Why wasnt he able to do that?

http://m.si.com/news/2551755

"I think it's going to help me tremendously, being in coach Weis' system," Clausen said of the offense run by John Fox in Carolina. "Coach Fox told me he said it was the same exact system I've played in the last three years. I'm really excited about that."

[jtnc]

You said they admitted to it. Do you have proof that they said that?

If anything it was reverse, when Clausen came in they threw significanlty more deep plays and bascially relied on that to win them games in 08.

Its naive to think he would change a enitre offence he's never coached to suit one player. His system was already complex enough, and now all the players on his team are suddlenley going to have to drop that, and learn another complex one for one QB? He wouldve been risking to much and hurting Clasuen not helping him.

Yes, but why did he have a losing record? He was a great Qb so shouldn't he have led his team to just one bowl game, have one more win over .500? Why wasnt he able to do that?

http://m.si.com/news/2551755

LMAO at what Fox told him.