Stay has been granted, lockout is official...again.

[BIGH2001]

yeah the Owners wouldn't have backed out of the incredibly successful CBA if not for DeMaurice Smith where can i buy your book

You're missing the point, smartass. In weighing his options, Smith most likely underestimated the possibility of a crushing defeat in court that would set his side back farther than any negotiated agreement ever would. He approached it the wrong way from Day 1 making it very clear that the players weren't interested in anything but litigation unless they were able to receive a deal that the owners clearly weren't going to give.

His brash approach led to distrust between the two sides further making it impossible to reach a fair, negotiated settlement.

The strategy would be great if he could guarantee a win in court. Of course that is impossible to do but I find it hard to believe that he didn't think he had a very high chance of success before going into this. That is the only explanation for rolling the dice in litigation. No one goes into court with a poo case unless they defending an accused murderer or rapist and they have little choice.

Just FYI the owners didn't want to extend the CBA in 2006. That didn't stop the sides from negotiating what you now call the incredibly successful CBA that they were operating under until this year. The difference between 2006 and now is quite clear - Upshaw and Tagliabue worked together rather than recklessly tearing the league apart like D. Smith is hellbent on doing.

[Kurb]

Just FYI the owners opted out of the 2006 CBA as well. That didn't stop the sides from negotiating what you now call the incredibly successful CBA that they were operating under until this year. The difference between 2006 and now is quite clear - Upshaw and Tagliabue worked together rather than recklessly tearing the league apart like D. Smith is hellbent on doing.

I blame Goodell as much as DSmith for not trying to talk these owners out of this silliness in the first place

[dimbee]

Just goes to show that greed doesn't wear team colors

[BIGH2001]

I blame Goodell as much as DSmith for not trying to talk these owners out of this silliness in the first place

Goodell is too busy being a figurehead to do anything. He is not the strong leader that the NFL needs in this time. About the only thing he has done with any force during his time as commissioner is increase the penalties for a helmet to helmet hit.

[bleys]

Goodell is too busy being a figurehead to do anything. He is not the strong leader that the NFL needs in this time. About the only thing he has done with any force during his time as commissioner is increase the penalties for a helmet to helmet hit.

doesn't even have to be helmet to helmet...

[Fiz]

You're missing the point, smartass. In weighing his options, Smith most likely underestimated the possibility of a crushing defeat in court that would set his side back farther than any negotiated agreement ever would.

Smith made the unforgivable mistake of not expecting a massive miscarriage of justice.

the courts have obviously sided with the owners by drawing this process out, which is the modus operandi for every single labor dispute/lawsuit against a major corporation in this country's history.

He approached it the wrong way from Day 1 making it very clear that the players weren't interested in anything but litigation unless they were able to receive a deal that the owners clearly weren't going to give.

the players knew that the owners have no case (and they don't, see my post above.) The owners are simply betting that the players won't be willing to take 1-3 years for their case to go to trial, after the 8th circuit gave the owners appeal an expedited hearing against the injunction.

His brash approach led to distrust between the two sides further making it impossible to reach a fair, negotiated settlement.

except we now know that the owners had no interest in a negotiated settlement since they were confident they could simply outlast the players, which they can.

being angry at Smith because he trusted the legal system is morally reprehensible. the owners knew that a circuit of reagan appointees would rule in their favor, regardless of how ridiculous it is. are you really faulting smith for not being jaded about the process?

The strategy would be great if he could guarantee a win in court. Of course that is impossible to do but I find it hard to believe that he didn't think he had a very high chance of success before going into this.

no, their case is unloseable. it just takes time. You're conflating brady and their suit against the illegal injunction.

That is the only explanation for rolling the dice in litigation. No one goes into court with a poo case unless they defending an accused murderer or rapist and they have little choice.

you do not understand what happened.

Just FYI the owners didn't want to extend the CBA in 2006. That didn't stop the sides from negotiating what you now call the incredibly successful CBA that they were operating under until this year. The difference between 2006 and now is quite clear - Upshaw and Tagliabue worked together rather than recklessly tearing the league apart like D. Smith is hellbent on doing.

if they didn't want to extend the CBA in 2006 then why did they? obviously we now know they're willing to risk their cash cow to get more money.

[BIGH2001]

Smith made the unforgivable mistake of not expecting a massive miscarriage of justice.

the courts have obviously sided with the owners by drawing this process out, which is the modus operandi for every single labor dispute/lawsuit against a major corporation in this country's history.

the players knew that the owners have no case (and they don't, see my post above.) The owners are simply betting that the players won't be willing to take 1-3 years for their case to go to trial, after the 8th circuit gave the owners appeal an expedited hearing against the injunction.

except we now know that the owners had no interest in a negotiated settlement since they were confident they could simply outlast the players, which they can.

being angry at Smith because he trusted the legal system is morally reprehensible. the owners knew that a circuit of reagan appointees would rule in their favor, regardless of how ridiculous it is. are you really faulting smith for not being jaded about the process?

no, their case is unloseable. it just takes time. You're conflating brady and their suit against the illegal injunction.

you do not understand what happened.

if they didn't want to extend the CBA in 2006 then why did they? obviously we now know they're willing to risk their cash cow to get more money.

Yes I am faulting Smith for not being jaded about the process. I think he greatly underestimated the risks before selling his grand plan to the players. As a lawyer it is his job to weigh all possible options and then come to an informed decision that is in the best interest of his clients. Based on his public statements for the past year I find it hard to believe that he ever seriously considered the trust building and negotiation option.

I am not confusing the Brady suit and the injunction; I am very well aware of the difference between the two. However, the stay is for all intents and purposes the battleground issue in this case. We all know that the players aren't going to hold out for a couple years while they pursue their antitrust case so a ruling granting an injunction to the owners effectively ends any hope that the players had of winning in court. The lawsuit is nothing more than a ploy to gain leverage which has now seriously backfired.

I am not questioning the fact that the suit itself would likely succeed on the merits if and when it finally gets resolved. However, I am questioning D. Smith's judgment in a big way. I don't think he even considered other alternatives before running the ship into the ground.

[Fiz]

you seem to be ignoring the owners were the ones that blew this up in the first place.

as the representative of the players, are you seriously arguing that smith should have bent over and gotten fuged in the ass?

[The Saltman]

Hawt

[Fiz]

I'm BIGH2001 and I think the democratically elected representative of the players should have sold them up the river instead of fighting for what they'd agreed to 4 years prior.

[Fiz]

how can you be that cynical and A. take yourself seriously and B. wake up in the morning

[BIGH2001]

I'm BIGH2001 and I think the democratically elected representative of the players should have sold them up the river instead of fighting for what they'd agreed to 4 years prior.

They also agreed to the opt out clause too. They knew this was coming a few years ago when the owners opted out. There was plenty of time to get a fair deal done but it wasn't done and I blame that mostly on the war-mongering of one democratically elected idiot. Do you really think that majority of players even understood the path that their leader was taking them down? I mean, for the most part, you aren't dealing with rocket scientists.

[Fiz]

They also agreed to the opt out clause too. They knew this was coming a few years ago when the owners opted out. There was plenty of time to get a fair deal done but it wasn't done and I blame that mostly on the war-mongering of one democratically elected idiot. Do you really think that majority of players even understood the path that their leader was taking them down? I mean, for the most part, you aren't dealing with rocket scientists.

"hey the owners want you to work more for less money."

a concept inconceivable to your typical *****

[BIGH2001]

"hey the owners want you to work more for less money."

a concept inconceivable to your typical *****

Not what I said but way to put words in my mouth.