Peppers' biggest sin?

[carolinanimal]

why does everyone say that he keeps putting us in a bad situation. the FO did that having to top players become fa in the same year, also everyone pounces on peppers about not signing last year but neither did gross, why did it take him 2 years to sign? how come no questions about him?

you guys are like dumped girlfriends!

What is funny is that Gross, even though he was considered our best lineman, was not really considered a top lineman until this year. we called him mr False start, but soon as he resigns somehow he is the best lt in the league(which i think is ryan clady by the way, that boy is amazing, 1.5-2 sacks given up in a pass happy team by a rookie), people are on here talking about his probowl and all pro status like he is god. but guess what pep has more probowls and allpros than gross.

and if he sucks so bad and is so inconsistent why would any gm be willing to trade for him? that is my question. i mean if you guys can see with your dvr and tivos, and message board links, surely then can see with their 7 years worth of COACHES TAPES AND FILMS AND PLAYER CONTACTS on pep. they would have to be idiots not too!

oh and stankowalski, i agree with you 100%!, But i toild you last time you tried to get a logical thread about the peppers situation. You will not get a answer based on fact or production on the field, it will be based purely on how they feel , it will be about emotion. it will be" he quit on us" "traitor", "doesnt play hard". no one has ever responded to your posts with any facts or numbers. Just what they "see" from thier couch on sunday.

i am of the camp of if he stays he stays, if he leaves he leaves. The panthers are my team! my "feelings" arent hurt if someone wants to leave after there contract is done. The nfl is a business, we all forget that sometimes, to us it is entertainment but to each of these guys it is a business. There is no loyalty in business. Funny how people get mad at john fox for being to "loyal" to vets with new players they think can do better on the roster, but that jp is not "loyal" to the panthers even though he finished out his contract.

[Fireball77]

I don't think most people expected "loyalty" from Pep per se, they seem to be more disappointed in the fact that it hasn't been handled very well publicly by his camp.

[carolinanimal]

I don't think most people expected "loyalty" from Pep per se, they seem to be more disappointed in the fact that it hasn't been handled very well publicly by his camp.

i know what you are saying. he has been silent for most of his career then supposedly explodes with comments. i think his agent is behind alot of this.

[panthers55]

For me, what has been most upsetting is the manner in which he has pursued free agency. He knew he would be franchised and knew he had to make a strong case for why other teams should pursue him. But he could have done that privately after the tag was placed on him. Seems his agent has had alot to say about Peppers. He could have made some phone calls and informed all the parties about where he stood. Why play this out in a public forum with discussions of being held back by your team as if you are so much better than everyone around you.

I have to say that reading about Peppers confirming those thoughts, was a surprise and somewhat of a shock. I didn't know he felt that way all along. Then it struck me as incredibly self-serving and egotistical. I saw glimpses of it in training camp every year when he didn't sign autographs or even acknowledge most of the kids. Meanwhile guys like Smitty and Jake are stoppping all the way down the line to give back and honor the folks that idolize you and pay to sit in those seats. I knew he had an ego.

But he could have remained quiet publicly and loud behind closed doors. Sure he can do what he wants. And say anything he wants, He has the right. But why was it all necesary?

What could he have done instead? He could have simply said he would like to entertain all offers and see where it goes.

Worse, is that I don't agree that he was held back this year. In fact the defense was built for him to be able to shine. It was designed this year to emphasize Peppers and keep the double teams off him. By Lining up Kemo on the center it mean that both Lewis and Peppers couldl line up in the 3 and 5 tachnique and penetrate the gaps, rather than hold the line or defend a double team which the left side of the line had to do this year. Frankly who had it harder would have been Brayton and Johnson both of whom had to often take on double teams and still had 10 sacks between them.

I don't know this to be true but I speculate it is because he knows that there are other systems with aggressive schemes that will make it easier to get his numbers with less work. That is the point I suspect. He sees other guys with good numbers who aren't working as hard as he thinks he is. He says to himself, " why am I working so hard? I should have it easy. Then he thinks, imagine how good I could be if I was in that kind of system. Especially coming from the corner as an OLB.

I wonder if it is about doing so much more with all of his talent, or how to get great numbers and work the least.

Or whether it isn't fun to play in a John Fox defense anymore. Seems the change in position and scheme he desires will serve to keep double teams off of him and let him roam the secondary as perhaps he wants.

Maybe it is just me but after hearing more from him in the last few days than I heard in the past 7 years, I just don't like him as much anymore. He doesn't seem to be the kind of person I would even like, let alone wear his jersey.

Oh I am not going to burn it or do something stupid. In fact it will remain hung in the frame on the wall. After all he has been a leading force on the defense for years.

I just don't like what he believes or stands for. I don't like how he conducts buisnss. Whether he stays or goes, he is tarnished for me. Worst of all, he is so into himself, he doesn't really care what I or any other fan thinks. That is his greatesr sin.

[Fireball77]

No doubt in my mind that the agent is behind it. But the agent works for Pep and I can't imagine that he would come out with a statement of that nature about Pep's not feeling he is used to his potential if it wasn't a thought Pep shared with him.

[mantal]

No doubt in my mind that the agent is behind it. But the agent works for Pep and I can't imagine that he would come out with a statement of that nature about Pep's not feeling he is used to his potential if it wasn't a thought Pep shared with him.

Or he put into Peppers head. The more I hear about these two, the more I think it's Carey pulling the strings on his puppet, I mean Peppers...

[King Taharqa]

You will not get a answer based on fact or production on the field, it will be based purely on how they feel , it will be about emotion.

This is the most dissapointing thing I find with some of the vets on here. Their inability to assess talent and performance without getting their "emotion" involved. Whether they like or dislike a player's perceived persona weighs too heavily on how they value them.

[Fireball77]

You could be right, Mint. Especially with the nature of their relationship from what you have said about it. Pep seems to be a follower more than a leader. But it still saddens me that he lets his agent say the stuff PUBLICLY. He never struck me as that type of dude. And...I was so happy with the way he was speaking out more during the year and he really seemed to be enjoying himself on the field and playing with a bunch of emotion (more than I have seen from him in awhile anyway).

[panthers55]

This is the most dissapointing thing I find with some of the vets on here. Their inability to assess talent and performance without getting their "emotion" involved. Whether they like or dislike a player's perceived persona weighs too heavily on how they value them.

Football is an emotional game, particularly on the football field and for the defense. Maybe if Peppers had demonstrated half of the emotions our fans did supporting him this year, he would be considered underacheiving and a big risk.

Sure I know you are talking about evaluating him from an objective point of view devoid of emotions and perceptions. I just think you can't fault foks for being emtional anymore than you can Peppers for his lack of wmotions. Or is that heart??

Peppers put it out there in the public forum when he could have kept it private. Can't fault people from reacting. Especially when he has been so vocal after all this time.

He has a right to say and do whatever he wants. Seems his fans have the same right as well.

[carolinanimal]

Football is an emotional game, particularly on the football field and for the defense. Maybe if Peppers had demonstrated half of the emotions our fans did supporting him this year, he would be considered underacheiving and a big risk.

Sure I know you are talking about evaluating him from an objective point of view devoid of emotions and perceptions. I just think you can't fault foks for being emtional anymore than you can Peppers for his lack of wmotions. Or is that heart??

Peppers put it out there in the public forum when he could have kept it private. Can't fault people from reacting. Especially when he has been so vocal after all this time.

He has a right to say and do whatever he wants. Seems his fans have the same right as well.

what is funny to me is how quickly we turned on him:reddevil:

some people didnt like him, but after he said he wanted to leave , it was like hitting a bees nest. the attack was swift and merciless. what is also funny is that this wouldnt have brought about half the drama that it would if gross had sign the contract he was offered last year.

on another note, what would we do with the picks we could possibly get for peppers. looking at the draft there are not worldbeaters at dt or de that we could really get to contribute this year. the guys he replaced would have to make a HUGE improvement to get back his production. so if he doesnt play next year dont expect us a to have a dominate d. that being that case i think we should take either the best wr or cb at that time, then next pick the best guard available. imagine a oline of gross/wharton/kalil/duke robinson or herman johnsonor andre levitre/otah. that line would be a monster line.

[TheJza]

Having read most of the posts here as to why people are upset with Peppers, I would like to make a few points:

1) some are mad AT PEPPERS because they don't feel he is worth $17 million.

Newsflash: he aint payin himself. A football organization is, and THEY feel he is worth the money. A simple question for these folks...are you worth what you get paid? Maybe someone thinks otherwise. Who are they to say what you are worth? Only ownership determines what you are worth. That, and your singular ability to demand more in the free market.

2) Some are mad because "he laid an egg" in 2007, and had the audacity to come back and record a career high in sacks in 2008. I've read all the reasons why folks feel this way, and none of them make any sense. Again, if anyone thinks that Peppers was trying to create a buildup of demand, going into free agency...guess what! He is already in demand. Given the right situation, he will be the highest paid defensive player in the league. You may not agree with it, but a FOOTBALL ORGANIZATION will pay that price, if they have the resources.

3) Loyalty. And this one is seems to be the most repetitive. The NFL is littered with players who demand a new contract, PRIOR to fulfilling their existing contract. I understand that, in many cases, because of one simple fact. The contracts are not guaranteed. Football orgainzation may cut you tomorrow, even though you signed a contract for 5 years. Why then is it considered blasphomy, when a player wants a new deal, having outplayed a contract he just signed, say, two years ago. But in this case...we're not even talking about that. Peppers played out his contract. He signed a deal, and lived up to it. His contract is up, and he is seeking other alternatives. That, folks, is about as noble a situation you will ever find in sports.

Loyalty - the act of binding yourself to a course of action. (Websters)

To those who feel otherwise, Peppers has been as loyal as he said he would, and more loyal than his peers by whom you compare.

[ladypanther]

A lot of people here believe our D was undercoached. We believe our D could have been better with better coaching, a better scheme. Pep is saying the same thing. He is doing it with some class....saying it has nothing to do with the coaches (which cannot be true if he feels he was "held back). So in reality, we agree with Pep. But it still hurts because we feel rejected. We loved him....he is not loving us back now. Always painful. If he does play for the Panthers next year.....many will likely boo him....it feels like he had an affair....violated our love relationship.

[Pimpdaddy]

A lot of people here believe our D was undercoached. We believe our D could have been better with better coaching, a better scheme. Pep is saying the same thing. He is doing it with some class....saying it has nothing to do with the coaches (which cannot be true if he feels he was "held back). So in reality, we agree with Pep. But it still hurts because we feel rejected. We loved him....he is not loving us back now. Always painful. If he does play for the Panthers next year.....many will likely boo him....it feels like he had an affair....violated our love relationship.

Nice and fair way to sum up all the facts. I guess the one single thing that really chaps me about this whole situation is our 'D' was suspect all year with Pep and if we dont get somebody to pony up for him its going to be an instant replay of last year. I know we have to try and get something for him but sometime we need to take a step back before we can take 2 forward.

I dont recall the exact situation when Collins exited. When his heart wasnt in it anymore wasnt he ushered out fairly quickly?

[carolinanimal]

Nice and fair way to sum up all the facts. I guess the one single thing that really chaps me about this whole situation is our 'D' was suspect all year with Pep and if we dont get somebody to pony up for him its going to be an instant replay of last year. I know we have to try and get something for him but sometime we need to take a step back before we can take 2 forward.

I dont recall the exact situation when Collins exited. When his heart wasnt in it anymore wasnt he ushered out fairly quickly?

do you think we will be better w/o pep?