Ugghhh....what a friggin' day.

[charlotte49er]

Before my Parents died, I told them that I was sorry for all the sh*t I did as a teenager. (I wasn't a bad kid, never in trouble with the law, but wasn't a model son either.) Fortunately, my parents said that I turned out alright and that wasn't counted.

[Kevin Greene]

Kid was in bed, should have left him alone.

[engine9]

How many kids do you have?

[2jakefansinva]

I feel for ya. Been thru something very similar (she left home) with our daughter. She's now 24 and doing well and was barely 17 when the poo hit the fan. I can't remember the term for it but, we went to the courthouse to release ourselves as guardians. Just in case she did something stupid and someone wanted to sue her we weren't held responsible. We did use some tactics against her to make sure she finished school. After all the smoke cleared we had a sit down with her. We told her we would go along with her living away from home on one condition. She graduate. She had 1/2 of her senior year to go. We told her if we saw no drop in her grades we could live with it. If her grades dropped we would insist she move back home and if she didn't we would get CPS involved and she would go to jail. We would have never done the CPS thing...we just used it as a bargaining chip. After a couple years on her own she ran into money trouble, we allowed her to stay with us a few months to recover and she's been gone since. I hope this all works out for ya. Most of all I hope your son makes the right decisions and works hard to finish school.

[5158Poundin]

Sounds like you had her emancipated at 17 which is legal to do in NC.

Don't know if that applies to Shinner in PA but it could be. It could be a good thing if he "knows" he can take care of himself. Legally he's still a minor unless you emancipate him. He would have to go before a judge and get declared an adult and waive any responsibility for his parents. I hope it doesn't have to go there but it's a good thing to do to protect yourselves as parents if a child is persistently tough and insists they go their own way.

[shinner]

My dad did that when I was 14, I kicked his ass and it was more than 10 years before we hooked up again...

My son has had an open invitation for a few years now. He might get a shot or two in but once I wrestle him to the ground, it's all over but the cryin'. His skinny ass ain't gonna get out from under me. I outweigh him at least 2:1 if not 3:1.

BTW, he never took me up on the offer.

Give it time. I will keep your family in my prayers. Your son will come to that realization but unfortunately it is on his time, not yours. Keep to your guns but let that boy know you love him and that won't change. It's all you can do. You can't force him until he grows up and realizes that you have always loved him. Hang in there.

Thanks...my sister has kept in contact with him via text message and a couple calls. My son won't talk on the phone for more than a few minutes and gives very short answers. He's more open in text messaging....which fits him. I know he's pretty non-confrontational. Deep down he has to know this is wrong. He's being led around at the dick by his girlfriend. Things got so much worse when he hooked up with this girl. Now that she's let him dip his pen in the ink, he's a goner. The world revolves around her and he's too blind to know he's throwing away his complete family in the process.

He really said some unbelievable poo to my sister in text messages the other day. My sister can be a real hard ass and the messages were enough to make her throw up her hands out of frustration in not being able to get through to the kid. Some of the stuff he mentions as complaints are all caused by him. For instance, we (i.e. his parents) are always pissed. Well, that's because we have to yell at him daily. Why do we have to yell at him daily? Because he refuses to listen to us. Something in him prevents him from coming home any sooner than 30 minutes (at a minimum...it's been up to 2hrs at times) after he's supposed to be in the house. It must be the same thing that prevents his gf from leaving our house at 10PM like she's supposed to. But these are his chief complaints. We're miserable in the house all the time, which he creates by being a bastard. If he doesn't do what he's told, we're supposed to "chill" because it's not a big deal. Oh, and every once in a while he breaks out the old chestnut, "I could be worse...it's not like I'm drinking or doing drugs." Makes me want to punch him right in the fuging face.

Reminds me of the Chris Rock bit: "Niggas always want credit for some poo they're supposed to do. They'll brag about stuff a normal man just does. They'll say something like, “Yeah, well I take care of my kids.” You're supposed to, you dumb motherfuger. “I ain't never been to jail.” Whaddya want? A cookie? You're not supposed to go to jail, you low-expectation-having motherfuger!"

Kid was in bed, should have left him alone.

I knew there'd be one!

I feel for ya. Been thru something very similar (she left home) with our daughter. She's now 24 and doing well and was barely 17 when the poo hit the fan. I can't remember the term for it but, we went to the courthouse to release ourselves as guardians. Just in case she did something stupid and someone wanted to sue her we weren't held responsible.

Sounds like you had her emancipated at 17 which is legal to do in NC.

Don't know if that applies to Shinner in PA but it could be. It could be a good thing if he "knows" he can take care of himself. Legally he's still a minor unless you emancipate him. He would have to go before a judge and get declared an adult and waive any responsibility for his parents. I hope it doesn't have to go there but it's a good thing to do to protect yourselves as parents if a child is persistently tough and insists they go their own way.

I don't know if it's headed to this or not....I looked it up online and you can get emancipated in PA. Also found out that he can drop out of school on his own at 17. Any younger and you need parental permission as well as a mandatory visit to a counselor.

I've had no contact with my son since he got the boot. Like I said, I left him a VM on Saturday night. No reply whatsoever. Also sent him a text message letting him know that his mom noticed he didn't take any school clothes (goes to a Catlik high school and has a uniform) with him. Told him he could come by and get some (and if he wanted I would leave the house if he sent his mom a message with a time on it) and we wouldn't prevent him from leaving. In it I also repeated that it had to be his decision to come back. Said that as much as it hurt me, he just pushed me too far and gave me no choice. Again, no reply whatsoever.

My sister sent me a txt msg this morning saying that he did go to school today for the first time this week. Generally the school requires a note explaining any absence. I don't know how he handled that (probably forged one) but we've heard nothing from the school. She also talked to my brother about things and he comes down on my side as well. I told her, then have him call and ask his nephew what the hell is he thinking. I figure the more people (who aren't his parents) that tell him how bad he's fuging up, might help. Neither set of grandparents know about it at this point.

Last night was the first time I slept earlier than 3AM....managed to fall asleep around 2 I think. Guess that's progress. No random bouts of crying either. I really am at a loss...it seems like he's hell bent on independence. From what I hear he's spending the weekdays/nights with a friend from school and then on weekends, over to the gf's house. It astonishes my wife that neither of these kid's parents have tried to call us and ask wtf is going on. Who knows what kind of crap my son has filled their heads with.

The boy gets (and has gotten) just about anything he wanted with a few exceptions. He wanted to go to some Extreme Sports camp which cost damn near as much as a semester at college. He also EXPECTED a driver's license (or permit) upon turning 16. Uh, no. He's clearly shown he's not responsible or emotionally mature to the point that I'm letting him sling a 3,000 pound hunk of metal down the public's roads. And he also wanted a job...but he wanted to work after school during the week. No weekends, get this...because they are "HIS" weekends...and he has the rest of this life to work weekends like all adults do (according to Jimmy). Tried to tell him that most adults work during the week and look forward to weekends off. But accepting that would counter his non-weekend working plan. As far as working after school on weekdays, it ain't gonna happen as we need him to watch his brother until one of us gets home from work. With the exception of Wednesday my wife doesn't normally get home until 7PM. My schedule is never known until each day..and I don't know when I'm starting (ending is dependent upon how long it takes to do a maintenance or a repair). So his ability to work during the week would leave him with only 1 real day (Wednesday) where he'd be guaranteed not to miss work. Jimmy's view? His brother is OUR problem and we should find a babysitter during the week so he can go to a job. His sister, who did much better in high school worked a couple nights during the week and on weekends...what happened to her grades? Right into the crapper. Her excuse? She was too tired to do homework because she was working. Now, my son already turns school work in late. Why the hell would he think we'd let him work? Without a doubt his grades would go down the crapper too. Nevermind the existing school issues he says, he can handle a job and school. Yeah, sure.

So this is the kind of thinking we deal with...typical teenager? I can't imagine so.

Just realized I never mentioned the capper to this whole thing....on the drive home from RI the night before this all happened, I got a $160 speeding ticket, 10 minutes from home going through some little village where a cop was hiding in someone's driveway, behind some shrubs with his lights off. No consideration that I was so close to home after driving nearly 7 hours. Thanks pal!

[PowerlessDan]

I'm just now seeing this. Pretty much the same thing happened to me as a kid. I was very much like Skew. I came back pretty soon and was offered help again from my parents. This happened after a short jail vacation. We still had difficulties, but it lightened the load a lot. Now I would walk through miles of broken glass for my parents, especially my dad who is who I despised the most way back then. My dad use to tell me I would know how he felt about me when I had kids. Now I do have a child and I do know exactly how he felt about me. I just hope I don't have to do this to mine when she comes of age. I have a good friend who's son is putting him through the same thing right now.

[Fireball77]

It astonishes my wife that neither of these kid's parents have tried to call us and ask wtf is going on. Who knows what kind of crap my son has filled their heads with.

That says a lot...and none of it is good mind you. I cannot even IMAGINE some set of parents just allowing their daughter's BF or son's friend to stay over their house constantly without a single call to the kid's parents at least.

I have no advice for you but I hope you guys get through this and get it worked out soon. I can't imagine how horrible it must be for you.

[shinner]

I have a good friend who's son is putting him through the same thing right now.

WTF is wrong with kids today? Where do they even get the balls? If I would have just tried half the poo my son has, my dad would have had me eating my teeth for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

That says a lot...and none of it is good mind you. I cannot even IMAGINE some set of parents just allowing their daughter's BF or son's friend to stay over their house constantly without a single call to the kid's parents at least.

I have no advice for you but I hope you guys get through this and get it worked out soon. I can't imagine how horrible it must be for you.

Thanks FB....I have no idea what he's telling these parents but they must be lapping it up with a big ass spoon. Me, if it was in my house, I wouldn't believe too much of what the kid said and want to talk to his parents.

Apparently he's gone to school since Wednesday and has plans on finishing the year. He still doesn't accept that he's wrong in any way. Any time we ask him a question using fact and logic, he either throws out a "you still don't understand" or ignores the question completely.

My wife hit the wall yesterday...she's off on Wednesdays and I guess sitting here with not a lot to do, she really fixated on thinking about it. After picking up son #2 from school she came home and downed about 8 beers and a couple of twisted teas in 2 hours while I was upstairs in my office doing our taxes and some stuff for work. About 6:30 my son comes upstairs and asks if I can take him over to our church as he's gotta serve Ash Wednesday Mass. Tells me mommy is sick. I said sure, no problem. I run him over, it's only a couple blocks from our house. I get back and my wife is still in the bathroom. I ask her if she's sick and needs medicine. She tells me no. Turns out she's in there puking her guts out and muttering about how she just "wants it to stop hurting" and "I just want my family back". She tells me about all she just drank.

This really pissed me off so I sent my son some text messages saying he needs to call us and work things out. His reply, "not ready to". So I worked on him all night trying to get him to come visit her tonight since I would be working. Figured he blames everything on me and would still come see his mom. So about the time school is over he sends her a text message saying he'll come over "if I'm not gonna get bitched at". Which only pissed her off that he's setting terms before he'll come over. I had to leave for work but talked to her once I got there and she told me she replied to him that his glasses and clothes would be in a bag out on the front step. This kind of annoyed me since I worked on him so much to get him to come for a visit....figured if we want to talk to him we gotta at least get him to come over. And then she goes and sends him a msg that's just gonna antagonize him. Well, he came over...immediately jumped in his younger brother's poo who said nothing other than "Hi, Jimmy" to him. He grabbed a few things, asked if he could take his guitar amp (wife said no) and was on his way. Really didn't talk to her at all. So, a waste of time IMO.

Probably tomorrow I'm gonna send him a message saying he needs to call me...at which time I'm gonna tell him that he has until Sunday to decide what he's going to do. If he says he's not coming home then I'm gonna tell him he needs to go to the county courthouse and look into emancipation procedures because we're not going to be held responsible for him if he's not at home under our control. If he balks at that, I'll tell him that my next call will be to police to report him as a runaway. We're really worn out and it's only been about a week since he got the boot.

Oh my sister was texting him tonight and she asked him some question about time and he answered that he's back at his friend's house (where he's staying) by 10PM. My sister asked how come he can be back at his friend's house on-time but can't do the same at his own house. NO reply.

I know that he knows he's wrong on all counts but he refuses to acknowledge it when we talk. He knows that if he did, there's no reason for him not to come home.

[Kevin Greene]

I knew there'd be one!

This, BTW, is a common occurrence with this kid...this is one in a series of many instances. So I told him to find his keys, pack his poo and get out, I've had enough of his lack of respect for us.

What exactly did you expect?

[cdcurrin]

yeah sounds like a half assed parenting job.

[tarheelpride]

from a teenager's perspective, we want too much. we want freedom, independence, and we want it now. that's where the parents come in at to enforce a sense of structure and discipline. I can see his side...he wants to see his girlfriend. his hormones are raging. that's normal.

i've never really gave my parents problems until high school, and even then it was because my mom was too strict and overprotective over me. in a way, it kind of held me back socially and mentally, but I am glad to have that kind of reinforcement in my life, despite me rebelling at times and pissing her the hell off. it gave me structure and kept my head on straight as i went off by myself to college. it didn't help she was a single parent while i was in high school. but what she told me, and i still go by today, "you do what you have to do and i'll do what i have to do."

in the end, it'll work out well. he'll appreciate what you did to him, even if it'll take years later. it's called good parenting. everything will play out just fine. yeah he is dumb, but i think this a phase that'll play out eventually. once he gets hit with reality, he'll come back with his tail between his legs. it's tearing him apart on the inside, he's not ready to admit it yet.

[shinner]

What exactly did you expect?

We weren't surprised or shocked that he actually left (though it may be one of the few times he ever did what he was told...go figure) but I thought after a few days he might come to realize that he's the source of his own complaints and decide it was time to hash things out with us and hopefully come home. He'll tell you straight up about how mature and responsible he is even though he's clearly being neither.

The boy is just lost...the one thing he did reply to yesterday when he stopped at our house was sorta funny (in a sad way). My wife asked him how long he thought his friend's parents were gonna let him sponge off of them. Very assuredly he claimed he wasn't sponging off of anyone. Wow. My wife pointed out that he sure was...he has his friend and his gf's parents doing all the stuff we did for him and paying his way in life. No reply. Nada. Every time something logical like that is put to him he clams up....because he knows it proves him wrong. Like I said, deep down he knows he's wrong but to give in to us and admit that would kill him.

in the end, it'll work out well. he'll appreciate what you did to him, even if it'll take years later. it's called good parenting. everything will play out just fine. yeah he is dumb, but i think this a phase that'll play out eventually. once he gets hit with reality, he'll come back with his tail between his legs. it's tearing him apart on the inside, he's not ready to admit it yet.

I hope yer right...I'm not too optimistic about it though. I'm gonna get him over here this weekend for a sit-down with us and lay it all out for him. He'll get one more week to figure things out....then it'll either be a trip to the courthouse for him to look into emancipation or a phone call from us to the cops to bring him home. I don't wish for either, especially the latter choice because there's nothing stopping him from running away any day after the cops bring him back. He could just not come home from school one day and then ignore all attempts by us, or my sister, or anyone from our family to contact him.

[shinner]

I know I'm talking to myself but writing this crap out somehow helps me a little bit...an unmeasurable amount, but even so.

Seems like we'll now be coming to some sort of resolution of this. I convinced my son to come over today after school so I could tell him some things. Told him he didn't have to speak at all and I wouldn't ask questions or try to talk him into coming home. Told him it would take 10 minutes, 15 at the most.

So he came over and I sent son #2 to the basement to do his homework so me and son #1 could sit at the kitchen table. I asked him if he knew what emancipation meant. He said he did in a way that made me think he may have already looked it up on the net. I asked him to tell me what it meant and he did, correctly. I basically told him that shortly (a week or so) I wanted him to decide if he was going to come home or not. I said I wasn't going to pressure him one way or the other but I had to know because if he chooses not to come home, then he needs to go to the judge and look into emancipation. I explained why I would require him to do this and he seemed to understand. I told him I would much rather have him come home and behave the way he behaves for his friend's parents. I told him that if baffles me that he can have a long talk with his gf's father but he can't (or won't) talk to me about anything. I said, here you are spilling your guts to the father of a girl you've been seeing for 6 months and you can't talk to your own father who you've known all your life. That really upsets me. I also told him that I didn't want him to come home for 9 months and once he turns 18, tell us he was leaving again (in the middle of the school year).

I told him that if he didn't come home we wouldn't be paying tuition for his senior year in high school and he'd have to enroll in the HS wherever he was staying. He then told me one day last week he went to school with his friend who he stays with on weekdays/nights. He said the school sucked and the teachers didn't teach or even give a poo what you did. He said he sat there all day with his cellphone on the desk, texting the whole day and the teacher didn't say poo to him. He said he would never make it there. We knew this because a few days ago the mother of his friend called and talked to my wife. She told her that Jimmy came home that day and told her how much that school stunk and that he appreciates the school we pay to send him to. In the 3 years he's been going to high school, that's the first time I have ever heard him say he appreciated that we do that for him....and it wasn't even to us.

I pretty much finished what I had to say in 10 minutes like I told him. He had 20 mins to kill waiting for his gf to come pick him up so he went downstairs and got some more clothes together as well as some other stuff I didn't see.

The GF showed up about 5 mins late and he said he had to go. I stopped him at the door, gave him a big hug and told him to take care of himself and that I loved him. I practically whispered it to keep from crying. He walked out the door without turning around. I'd like to think that maybe hearing me say that got to him a little. After he left, son #2 was still downstairs and I broke down for about 10 mins.

All in all, I guess I'm not that disturbed by the thought of him not coming home. He is 17 and will be 18 in not too long a time so it's not too tough to take. It's not like he's 12 or 13. As long as I know that he has somewhere to live, I can deal with it.