According to Adam Schefter...

[countryboi]

From what I've read, I don't expect a stay or a successful appeal by the owners from the 8th circuit court.

I expect the owners to come back to the negotiating table a little more humble than before and hopefully get something done.

more like come back to the negotiating table and getting bent over backwards... they were more than humble before

[Snake]

They need to just get back to negotiating and put this crap behind them.

I agree but answer me this. Why would the nflpa want too? They have everything they want.

[Ramblin' Willie]

If the owners win, they make more money and the players make less. If the players win, they make more money and the owners ???. Anybody who thinks the owners will make less is fooling themselves. The fans will lose if the owners win, and they will lose more if the players win. When oil goes up, we pay more for gas. The gas companies don't eat the higher cost of oil. The owners will not eat the higher cost of players, they will pass it on to us.

It is time to invest more energy supporting college football. The NFL is out of control on both the owners and players sides.

[paulSM]

If the owners win, they make more money and the players make less. If the players win, they make more money and the owners ???. Anybody who thinks the owners will make less is fooling themselves. The fans will lose if the owners win, and they will lose more if the players win. When oil goes up, we pay more for gas. The gas companies don't eat the higher cost of oil. The owners will not eat the higher cost of players, they will pass it on to us.

It is time to invest more energy supporting college football. The NFL is out of control on both the owners and players sides.

Go GATORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btw, I'm really hoping for a stay (even though it's very unlikely) this way there will be a deadline for a new deal, and they won't just accept the status quo.

[riddel]

more like come back to the negotiating table and getting bent over backwards... they were more than humble before

Son. Dews yous nowa whut a rebenue chard luks lik?

[mountainpantherfan]

The NFL backed out of the CBA during the height of NFL popularity. One of the reasons they did this is they claimed they were losing money. No one in their right mind believes this, and if it was true than it would be quite simple to prove it.

Of course they haven't done it because A. they're not losing money and B. a lot of owners do some things with their teams that they don't want their fans knowing about. The Glazers use the bucs as a bank to pay down interest on Man U, Kraft almost certainly has shady connections to Israel and all the illegal poo that entails, Dan Snyder would likely immediately get arrested etc

There's also the argument of helping to pay down the stadiums. Basically a few owners (Jones, Kraft, Snyder, Bidwells) have built new stadiums/made massive renovations. They didn't just pay for those things out of pocket. Despite what a bunch of people think, Jerry Jones is not the richest owners in the NFL by a damn sight. Off the top of my head I don't think he's top ten. He's not Allen, or Johnson, or any of those guys that could just write a check. No one in the NFL has Steinbrenner ship building type money.

Anyway, one argument put forth is that the players should take a lower percentage of the profits to help finance stadium construction. The owners claimed this would increase revenue (revenue has been heading straight up since 1993 so it's not necessary) and we'd go back to that horse poo "growing the pie" nonsense which is already happening. The players were actually amenable to that, but they wanted equity with stadiums. Of course the owners thought that was a ridiculous idea because why in the world would people who took a pay cut to build something want some of the realized profits from its construction..wait.

Sorry Fiz but your entire arguement is wrong. The owners have never claimed they are losing money. You are correct that no one would believe that because is isn't true. The problem is that the businesses are constantly showing less and less profit each year since the last CBA. They are still making money, just not as much as they were. And while every team hasn't opened up their books, the one public team, Green Bay Packers, their records show exactly this. If it's happening in Green Bay it's happening other places too. Maybe not every team is showing receding profits but I would guess more than not at the minimum.

Now, I don't have any pity for the owners who are making $20mm a year instead of $50mm a year. But I also can not fault them for wanting their businesses to be seen as increasing in value and not decreasing in value. I also don't pity players who are making millions a year nor do I fault them for not wanting their pay raises redused (note that the league has never asked the players to take a pay cut, just that their raises each year would be less).

I actually think both sides have reasonable arguments. But for the Panthers continued success and stability both financially and staying in the area, I feel that supporting the owners is in the best long term interest for the team I support.

[Fiz]

Sorry Fiz but your entire arguement is wrong. The owners have never claimed they are losing money. You are correct that no one would believe that because is isn't true. The problem is that the businesses are constantly showing less and less profit each year since the last CBA. They are still making money, just not as much as they were. And while every team hasn't opened up their books, the one public team, Green Bay Packers, their records show exactly this. If it's happening in Green Bay it's happening other places too. Maybe not every team is showing receding profits but I would guess more than not at the minimum.

no, not quite.

in the mind of a capitalist losing money is the exact same as losing potential revenue. And you're correct that the packers numbers showed diminishing profits, but their situation is completely uncomparable to the other 31 teams for a whole host of reasons that are glaringly obvious.

if the teams were losing revenue, it'd be very easy to prove. the fact that they won't do it should be a tip off to everyone but, alas.

i mean christ does no one remember when George Shinn was pulling this exact same poo and we ran him out of town?

I actually think both sides have reasonable arguments. But for the Panthers continued success and stability both financially and staying in the area, I feel that supporting the owners is in the best long term interest for the team I support.

If we just want to make this a Panthers centric argument, Richardson is in the top five in the league over the past decade as far as spending. I think the Fox coaching staff in 2010 was the third or fourth highest paid, and that's without a floor. He chose to do that. The panthers have been at the salary cap during the entire fox regime.

I think people seriously underestimate just how rich Jerry is. Of course he's about to be dead so who knows who will buy the team but if the recent past is any indication it'll be someone with some serious cash. maybe we could be the first team owned by an oil sheik

[mountainpantherfan]

if the teams were losing revenue, it'd be very easy to prove. the fact that they won't do it should be a tip off to everyone but, alas.

i mean christ does no one remember when George Shinn was pulling this exact same poo and we ran him out of town?

If we just want to make this a Panthers centric argument, Richardson is in the top five in the league over the past decade as far as spending. I think the Fox coaching staff in 2010 was the third or fourth highest paid, and that's without a floor. He chose to do that. The panthers have been at the salary cap during the entire fox regime.

I think you are confussing terms because you do know what you are talking about, we just have differing views. Teams are not claiming to be losing money or revenue. Increasing profits is a very important part of a business model when dealing with securing lines of credit and aluring potentiel investors.

You mentioned Shinn. No one liked him because of the way he came across to the public. And I can't say that I wasn't extremely happy when he failed again in New Orleans. However, the case that Shinn made as to the financial issues the team was facing were very real and true. And eventually the reason he left. Was it bullshit? Yes and I would think the same thing if JR or whoever ends up with the team moved the team because of wanting higher profit margins. But that doesn't change the fact that owners leave for the exact reason JR is currently fighting over.

That isn't a good sign for the long-term stability of the Panthers in Carolina IMO. Maybe it is BS that teams profits are declining like you said but as a business executive I can tell you that if my employees pay raise was determined by the total revenue of the business, I would be going out of business pretty quickly during this economic downturn. So I guess for me, I get it and believe them without them opening the books.

[TCF2]

Schefter's going nuts on twitter!

"Judge ordered NFL to start its league year immediately, but said no team is obligated to sign free agents. Trades in question."

"Judge's 20 page order takes her 89 page order from Mon and hits the major points even harder.*Makes NFL's attempt to get overturned harder"

"League will tell the teams to hold pending 8th Circuit Ruling on the stay, NFLPA's position is it can't. Going to be interesting."

Thus judge is hookin is up! According to his tweet they have been ordered to start up immediately! This is good!