My Big Board

[MaineManPanther]

7 Pro Bowlers this year they drafted or signed as UDFA, which was the most in the league:

Tom Brady

Brandon Merriweather

Jerod Mayo

Logan Mankins

Vince Wilfork

Devin McCourty

Matt Light

Dallas was 2nd with 6.

The problem with that argument is its not a good way to measure a overall draft for year in and year out.

For example, If the Panthers (starting in 2000) managed to draft just one Pro Bowler almost every year ( the other draftess being realtivley unimpressive and average). And by some odds they all manged to have a great year worthy of being voting in.

Does that mean the past decade has been a great draft success?

Answer: No , because by most people's standrads drafting only one pretty good player per draft is not considred a great draft.

Now Im sure the Patriots have atleast done slightly better then my example above. I just needed to make a point.

A far better barometer for overall draft success is going through each recent draft and noting how many of the specfic teams draft picks failed, and how many succeded, while keeping in mind where they were drafted

[Cat'sGrowl]

Sorry, I interpreted this question as you making a statement that you didn't think they had anyone decent that they drafted.

I personally think the Patriots are one of the best drafting team in the NFL, at least of the last decade. I do think they are beginning to slip a bit so we'll see if they can recover.

I was exaggerating to prove a point. No way I'd forget about no. 12.

And I don't believe the Pats are terrible..um...drafters. I just think this notion that they are some sort of elite FO that constantly pumps in great talent through the draft is ludicrous. We have to hear it every time the Pats trade down, even though whomever they do end up picking with those picks have no higher a success rate than your average NFL team. Evey team in the NFL could sell their current pick for a couple picks next year. Most simply don't. Just because the Patriots "dare to be different" people seem to think they have this "inside knowledge" that the other 31 teams are missing.

The thing is, when you look at it-you see my point.

Even those articles that FireFox posted showed that when you do serious research, the Pats have major flaws in their drafting. None of them had the Pats right at the top, except for maybe the BleacherReport one. Which I ignored. Because it's BleacherReport.

[Cat'sGrowl]

That's exactly what he meant....he is backing off of that now. Any second now mom will send him to bed.

Awww personal insults...cute. What? Couldn't google any more "facts" from a Pats forum to support your argument?

This is about 3 straight posts now from you without any semblance of an intellectual retort.

Oh yeah, well, your mom's ugly!! Ha! Take that! Pats rule!

[mav1234]

I was exaggerating to prove a point. No way I'd forget about no. 12.

Ahh, okay. Well, you're welcome to your opinion. I just don't think it's just Brady... They pump out great draft picks pretty regularly... and UDFAs too.

The Patriots are generally held to be one of the best FOs in the league. IMO, they are probably just as good at talent evaluation as some others, but they have some amazing coaches, so that helps.

edit: Clayton had the Patriots at #1. "The Best Sports Blog" had them at #3. Maiocco had them at #9. Only the Colts (2 in Clayton, 3 in Maiocco, "Honorable Mention" in Best Sports Blog) were also on all three lists.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Ahh, okay. Well, you're welcome to your opinion. I just don't think it's just Brady... They pump out great draft picks pretty regularly... and UDFAs too.

The Patriots are generally held to be one of the best FOs in the league. IMO, they are probably just as good at talent evaluation as some others, but they have some amazing coaches, so that helps.

I firmly believe that the Patriots coaching is the strength of their organization. You take most of those players out of there and a lot of them would fail miserably. Not even Brady would be as great as he is without Belichick. (Although, in that particular case, the relationship is mutually beneficial..)

[KJDaniel31]

Awww personal insults...cute. What? Couldn't google any more "facts" from a Pats forum to support your argument?

This is about 3 straight posts now from you without any semblance of an intellectual retort.

Oh yeah, well, your mom's ugly!! Ha! Take that! Pats rule!

Well, I dont make ridiculous claims....then do research to find out I'm way off base, and follow that up with completely backing off my ridiculous claim. The Patriots draft more good players than anyone in the league, as proven by SB titles and home grown Pro Bowlers. You are simply far too desperate to stay a homer to have any reasonable conversation. Seriously, you should get that anger thing checked out. Life is too short.

[mav1234]

I firmly believe that the Patriots coaching is the strength of their organization. You take most of those players out of there and a lot of them would fail miserably. Not even Brady would be as great as he is without Belichick. (Although, in that particular case, the relationship is mutually beneficial..)

I agree that coaching is their strength.

They are also good talent evaluators, but they are not as good as they were a few years back IMO.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Well, I dont make ridiculous claims....then do research to find out I'm way off base, and follow that up with completely backing off my ridiculous claim. The Patriots draft more good players than anyone in the league, as proven by SB titles and home grown Pro Bowlers. You are simply far too desperate to stay a homer to have any reasonable conversation. Seriously, you should get that anger thing checked out. Life is too short.

Still googling, huh? It's okay. The internet should be able to provide you with more cheesy cliche insults until you can find something.

[Cat'sGrowl]

I agree that coaching is their strength.

They are also good talent evaluators, but they are not as good as they were a few years back IMO.

Definitely not. Brady just seems to get better though. I look forward to seeing them fall however. The day will come.

[KJDaniel31]

Still googling, huh? It's okay. The internet should be able to provide you with more cheesy cliche insults until you can find something.

I actually have stats, like PBs and SB rings to back up my opinion, and you quote a random 3rd round busted pick as evidence that they aren't any good? And you want to be taken seriously?

I wonder if you have a habit of making wild claims and then backing down once you realize they make no sense? To say that its crazy to call the Pats, who lead the league in home drafted elite players, the best drafting team as least in the NFL does not make any sense.

[KJDaniel31]

The problem with that argument is its not a good way to measure a overall draft for year in and year out.

For example, If the Panthers (starting in 2000) managed to draft just one Pro Bowler almost every year ( the other draftess being realtivley unimpressive and average). And by some odds they all manged to have a great year worthy of being voting in.

Does that mean the past decade has been a great draft success?

Answer: No , because by most people's standrads drafting only one pretty good player per draft is not considred a great draft.

Now Im sure the Patriots have atleast done slightly better then my example above. I just needed to make a point.

A far better barometer for overall draft success is going through each recent draft and noting how many of the specfic teams draft picks failed, and how many succeded, while keeping in mind where they were drafted

It's much more than that. They are among the top teams in the league every year, and you will have a hard time finding guys who aren't home grown or at least were acquired very young.

On offense, every starter was drafted/UDFA except for Welker (traded for after his 3rd season), Woodhead and Connolly acquired after their rookie year. On defense, all are home grown except for Warren and Nincovich.

I look at that 17 of 22 starters home grown, 2 more acquired as 2nd year FA, and it's impressive to me. They drafted their K and P as well (assuming Gostkowski is healthy). I'm not sure what use a Patriots board (or where to find one) is when a simple look at any depth chart shows the obvious truth.

[Ruff]

I don't think it's fair to say that the Pats are the penultimate drafting team/organization. But, I will say that they have drafted some incredibly good players, so saying they're horrible drafters is sorta impossible.

The Pats have drafted good players. Hell, every team in the NFL has. You can't say one team is horrible and say another team is not. Every team is right around the 40-55% hit rate.

[MaineManPanther]

I actually have stats, like PBs and SB rings to back up my opinion, and you quote a random 3rd round busted pick as evidence that they aren't any good? And you want to be taken seriously?

I wonder if you have a habit of making wild claims and then backing down once you realize they make no sense? To say that its crazy to call the Pats, who lead the league in home drafted elite players, the best drafting team as least in the NFL does not make any sense.

Their 2010 draft was great. But look over some of their drafts over the past decade:

For example their 2006 draft:

1st.Maroney

2nd.Jackson

3rd.Thomas

4th.Mills

4th.Gostkowski

5th.O'Callaghan

6th.Mincey

6th.Stevenson

6th.Smith

7th.Andrews

Only Gostkowski (a talented kicker) is still on the team.

2008:

1st Mayo

2nd Wheatley

3rd O'Connel

3rd Crable

4th White

5th Slater

6th Bo Rudd

Mayo has been worth it. Slater led the team is ST tackles, but has not contributed anywhere else. White has started inconsistenley over the years but has played bad. The rest are off the team.

2004:

1st Wilfork

1st Watson

2nd Hill

3rd Scott

4th Reid

4th Cobbs

5th Sam

7th Morton

Wilfork has been outstanding. Watson wasnt bad and had a pretty good 06 year. But never consistnley played high enough for a first round pick. The rest didn't play impressivley and are off the team.

[MaineManPanther]

It's much more than that. They are among the top teams in the league every year, and you will have a hard time finding guys who aren't home grown or at least were acquired very young.

On offense, every starter was drafted/UDFA except for Welker (traded for after his 3rd season), Woodhead and Connolly acquired after their rookie year. On defense, all are home grown except for Warren and Nincovich.

I look at that 17 of 22 starters home grown, 2 more acquired as 2nd year FA, and it's impressive to me. They drafted their K and P as well (assuming Gostkowski is healthy). I'm not sure what use a Patriots board (or where to find one) is when a simple look at any depth chart shows the obvious truth.

The argument for me is wether they are the best drafting team in the NFL

The use of of a board is to estbalish if they have overall success in drafting that year.