Taking a QB may put us in the cellar

[DaCityKats]

since we are already in the cellar, if we take a QB what would we be OP?

[panthers55]

since we are already in the cellar, if we take a QB what would we be OP?

Exactly. And further how will getting a Dareus or Peterson get us out of the cellar any sooner with our prolific 10 points a game offense with Clausen and Moore as our QBs. The only difference is that with a rookie Qb we have hope for the future. Without one we are still in the basement with no hope 2012 will be any better.

[CRA]

NFC Teams with winning records in 2010....and where there QB was drafted

Falcons - 3rd overall pick

Bucs - 17th overall

Saints - 33rd overall

Packers - 24th overall

Bears -11th overall

Giants - 1st overall

Philly - 1st overall

teams aren't looking in 2nd and late rounds for a franchise QB....they may be looking for depth and a decent QB. The Tom Brady's of the world and Kurt Warners are what teams stumble upon......

[TruCatzFan]

Drafting a QB may land us at the TOP of the Division!!! Look fellas, it's open for debate on whether or not Jimmy Clausen will be an NFL caliber QB... My thoughts on that are HELL NO! The dude even looks half retarded to be honest. Then he gets on Twitter and cries about not being invited to fellow teammates parties.... C'mon Maaan! Say what you want about a lame duck coach, bad OC, or what have you. A QB is supposed to be a LEADER right! The leader of the football team... The FACE of the franchise! Who here HONESTLY believes that he can be either!? I can tell you who does NOT... A few players have BLASTED him publicly... to name just a couple... Jon Beason, and Steve Smith! These are OUR captains! There have been more people that have slammed him too! Enough about Jimmy though...

Say we take a QB... Cam Newton.... because I think Gabbert has a "homo" aura about him and i think Newton is better! I don't recall Gabbert winning a Heisman or national Championship!?

Say we take Cam (which i hope we do) he instantly gives us a face, instantly rejuvenates a young Panther locker room, and loyal fan base! Those are FACTS whether you like the guy or not... This guy makes us WAY better than we were last year INSTANTLY!! Our defense was STR8 last year guys... they just stayed on the fieled for over 1/2 of each game! They can only hold people for so long. and with our Offense, (if you really want to call it that) not scoring any points....what did you expect our record to be....

Cam Newton gives us the ability to keep the NFC South tradition alive (although it was broken last year) from going from the worst in the division to winning the division title the very next year! All this cellar talk is for Oscar Meyer...Just baloney!!!! Cam gives us a Spark and his work ethic is SECOND to none! Where's Jimmy at now??? at home praying that they dont draft Cam... His ass should be organizing team workouts like Colt Mccoy is doing though! And you guys wonder why we only won 2 games! I guarentee you that within two weeks of Cam being drafted (whoever drafts him) he has organized team workouts or at least at a minimum has his receivers out there running routes. He has done that at EVERY LEVEL HIS ENTIRE CAREER!

Sure, he bought a stolen a laptop, maybe cheated on a test... maybe even knew about his dad and the $$... No there is NO Guarantee that he will save our franchise... but he COULD!!! Isn't that why Obama was elected? hope...

(Not saying that he delivered) (or that he has even done a good job) but I can use some hope for this team as a fan of the Panthers and of the game. This guy has the ABILITY to revolutionize the Position!! He's charismatic... I don't know but it must be tough being in the draft room evaluating his talent and then passing on the guy!

So in summary... Drafting a QB won't put us in the cellar unless it's Gabbert in my opinion! He's nothing spectacular... Cam is and that's why there's so much HYPE surrounding his name. actually another thought before i go....

To all of you who doubt that a first year QB can come in and make a real difference for a team during his ROOKIE season... what do you say about guys like: Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Stafford (when healthy), Bradford last year... I mean and thats just recently... these guys started in year one and made their teams EXPONENTIALLY better! Don't buy into the hype that the talking heads say on ESPN... They get paid to TALK!!! (which must be nice by the way)sometimes they let CRAP out of their mouths just to start debates like we're doing right now!

In the end... If we take Dareus and pass on Newton I would totally UNDERSTAND... We have a defensive GURU as our HC... It would make sense!

If we trade down to 3 get a 2nd rounder and still snag Peterson at the 3 spot I'm still happy! Now if we totally blow this draft and dont pick Cam, Dareus, or Peterson I'll be pissed! I don't care how many draft picks we get in this years or next years draft class... We have a young team with A LOT of talent. Our BLARING hole is at the helm! QB! PERIOD!

Imagine this for a second... Cam under center, DeAngelo behind him... Smith, Edwards, and Lafell or Gettis split out, Shockey at tight end.... What do you do if you're a defense!? Blitz the corners? oh ok... quick screen to Armanti Edwards... but wait, he drops back and "PASSES" accross the field to a wide open Steve smith! Maybe they'll load the box huh... Play action the LB's bite and pick a receiver any receiver!!!!

We're missing that one piece to this puzzle, and we can turn this thing around 180 degrees from day one. The question is will we do it? If we don't though and take Dareus first...it sures up our DL for yeas to come! To be honest Jake Locker looks pretty good to me, and I think he's better than Clausen too! So much to speculate about. Never really liked Cam until he came back and beat an NFL caliber defense in Nick Saban's Alabama team! Where was dareus at when Cam went crazy in the second half!? Was he taking plays off!??? Because I think we've been down that road before...and If i have a choice I pass on him! But he's a beast!

Truth be told... we need to hit the JACKPOT in the later rnds of the draft! Thats what will make us or break us. We need role players that fit in our system. Once the CBA is reached a good vet on each side of the ball sures us up! I have high hopes this season for the Panthers!

The thoughts of drafting first again next year are CRAZY!!!! The Sky is the limit!

This was my 2nd post here and I obviously know football... I'm looking forward to mixing it up with all of you while we wait on these guys (The NFL) to get their Shyite together!

Gotta go for now

-Deuces

[Stroupe-a-loop]

Not at QB. I'd be willing to bet, without actually doing the work to look it up, there's as many UDFA starters as 2nd rounders at QB. Maybe more if you combine 2nd and 3rd than UDFA. For every Brees in the 2nd you got 3 UDFA Romos/Delhommes/Warners and 6th round Bradys.

Edit: Beat me to my first sentence, CRA :P

Starting quarterbacks (excluding the Cardinals, Titans, Panthers, Bengals, Redskins, Vikings and 49ers because nobody knows what the hell they're doing)

NFC

Saints: Drew Brees 2nd rounder, 32nd overall (so technically a first if you wanna look at it that way)

Falcons: Matt Ryan 1st rounder

Buccaneers: Josh Freeman 1st rounder

Bears: Jay Cutler 1st rounder

Lions: Matt Stafford 1st rounder

Packers: Rodgers 1st rounder

Giants: Eli Manning 1st rounder

Cowboys: Tony Romo Undrafted

Eagles: Vick 1st rounder

Seahawks: Matt Hasselbeck 6th rounder

Rams: Sam Bradford 1st Rounder

8 out of 11 are first rounders with one early second and two late/undrafteds

AFC

Ravens: Joe Flacco 1st rounder

Browns: Colt McCoy 3rd rounder

Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger 1st rounder

Texans: Matt Schaub 3rd rounder

Colts: Peyton Manning 1st rounder

Jaguars: David Garrard 4th rounder

Bills: Ryan Fitzpatrick 7th rounder

Dolphins: Chad Henne 2nd rounder

Patriots: Tom Brady 6th rounder

Jets: Mark Sanchez 1st rounder

Raiders: Jason Campbell 1st rounder

Chiefs: Matt Cassel 7th rounder

Broncos: Kyle Orton 5th rounder

Chargers: Phillip River 1st rounder

So 6 out of 14 first rounders, 3 2nd/third rounders, and 5 late rounders.

That makes a total of 14 of 25 (56%) established starters are first rounders with 8 of those being top five selections, and 5 of those being first overall. 4 of 25 (16%) are 2nd or third rounders, and 7 of 25 (28%) are late or undrafted.

[Sword]

If Rivera stays with the status quo and go with journeyman vets year after year(hey guys let's wait til next year their will be better QBs to draft then..oh wait they didn't declare again..) like Foxball did he will be fired sooner then if he gets a rookie QB of his own to develop..you think Raheem Morris would still have a job if he didn't have Josh Freeman progressing in their awful season? John Fox would have been fired years ago if Jake Delhomme hadn't outplayed his paycheck for years..

[JawnyBlaze]

heh thanks for doing the work for me and proving my point, stroupe :)

[CRA]

Starting quarterbacks (excluding the Cardinals, Titans, Panthers, Bengals, Redskins, Vikings and 49ers because nobody knows what the hell they're doing)

NFC

Saints: Drew Brees 2nd rounder, 32nd overall (so technically a first if you wanna look at it that way)

Falcons: Matt Ryan 1st rounder

Buccaneers: Josh Freeman 1st rounder

Bears: Jay Cutler 1st rounder

Lions: Matt Stafford 1st rounder

Packers: Rodgers 1st rounder

Giants: Eli Manning 1st rounder

Cowboys: Tony Romo Undrafted

Eagles: Vick 1st rounder

Seahawks: Matt Hasselbeck 6th rounder

Rams: Sam Bradford 1st Rounder

8 out of 11 are first rounders with one early second and two late/undrafteds

AFC

Ravens: Joe Flacco 1st rounder

Browns: Colt McCoy 3rd rounder

Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger 1st rounder

Texans: Matt Schaub 3rd rounder

Colts: Peyton Manning 1st rounder

Jaguars: David Garrard 4th rounder

Bills: Ryan Fitzpatrick 7th rounder

Dolphins: Chad Henne 2nd rounder

Patriots: Tom Brady 6th rounder

Jets: Mark Sanchez 1st rounder

Raiders: Jason Campbell 1st rounder

Chiefs: Matt Cassel 7th rounder

Broncos: Kyle Orton 5th rounder

Chargers: Phillip River 1st rounder

So 6 out of 14 first rounders, 3 2nd/third rounders, and 5 late rounders.

That makes a total of 14 of 25 (56%) established starters are first rounders with 8 of those being top five selections, and 5 of those being first overall. 4 of 25 (16%) are 2nd or third rounders, and 7 of 25 (28%) are late or undrafted.

Bills, Broncos, Phins are all examples of teams who are pretty open about needing QBs......teams like that skew the numbers.

[mick eye]

people keep saying that but NFL draft history doesn't support it.

Ok. OK history lesson. First the parameters since i am discussing the top players we will only be talking about the first five picks and only go back to 1990.

1990- Cortez Kennedy (safe pick) 11 seasons and considered one of the best defensive tackles of all time.

Jeff George ( Reach) A nightmare for the team that drafted him. Regularly ignored his coaches plays for his own. (Sound familar) Bounced around the league. Interesting tidbit Andre Ware was the second QB taken.

1991- Russell Maryland (safe pick) 10 seasons in the league.

This is a interesting year cause the first QB taken was Todd Marinovich.

Top five is DT, CB, FS, and OLB.

1992- Craptastic year. Sean Gilbert ( DT) surrounded by losers like Steve Emtman, Desmond Howard and Quintin Coryatt.

1993- Drew Bledsoe and Rick Mirer top two picks. Bledsoe was moderately successful Mirer not so much. Willie Roaf several picks down seems to have been the safer pick. This year maybe one of the reasons now tackles are taken higher.

fast forward past Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer and Big Dan Wilkerson.

1995- Warren Sapp drops because of some harmless herb. Kerry Collins and Steve McNair are passed over for Tony Boselli and a Penn State runningback. Boselli was the safe pick i guess and Ki-Jana Carter was the upside pick.

fast forward to the Manning era.

1998- Manning and Leaf. Then there is WOODSON. Corners are worthy of a top 2 pick. I bet you the Chargers wish they had taken Woodson.

1999- Year of the QB. Couch, McNabb, and AKILI SMITH. Question is if Ricky Williams was so coveted by Ditka why would four teams pass on him. Cause of the myth that QB's are better picks.

to be cont.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

heh thanks for doing the work for me and proving my point, stroupe :)

No prob, friend. I was kind of curious myself and figured I'd go ahead and try to do the leg work.

Bills, Broncos, Phins are all examples of teams who are pretty open about needing QBs......teams like that skew the numbers.

I agree on the Dolphins. I think the Broncos are set with Orton unless The Golden Calf of Bristol surpasses him (which would make it another first rounder). The Bills are insane. I have no idea what they are doing but have no doubt they would stick with Fitzpatrick for ten plus years just to f*#% with me.

[X-Clown]

Bills, Broncos, Phins are all examples of teams who are pretty open about needing QBs......teams like that skew the numbers.

Yup, and it's arguable that The Golden Calf of Bristol will get his shot again in Denver which will add another first rounder to the boards. It's also likely that McNabb, Palmer, and Young who were all first rounders will be starting for those teams who do not have an answer yet at QB (which remains to be seen).

[JawnyBlaze]

Starting quarterbacks (excluding the Cardinals, Titans, Panthers, Bengals, Redskins, Vikings and 49ers because nobody knows what the hell they're doing)

Even if you include the Cards, Bengals, Redskins, Vikings and 49ers (because we pretty much know who their starters are if they don't draft a new one) you got 3 first rounders (two of which are 1st overall in Palmer and Smith, and McNabb was #2), 1 second rounder (Tarvaris Jackson) and one late rounder (John Skelton).

The Panthers starter (assuming one isn't drafted) could equally be a 2nd rounder (Jimmah) or UDFA (Moore). Titans...uh who do they have? Only one I know is Young, a 1st rounder who has been guaranteed by the coach to not be coming back.

[Panthro]

Ok. OK history lesson. First the parameters since i am discussing the top players we will only be talking about the first five picks and only go back to 1990.

1990- Cortez Kennedy (safe pick) 11 seasons and considered one of the best defensive tackles of all time.

Jeff George ( Reach) A nightmare for the team that drafted him. Regularly ignored his coaches plays for his own. (Sound familar) Bounced around the league. Interesting tidbit Andre Ware was the second QB taken.

1991- Russell Maryland (safe pick) 10 seasons in the league.

This is a interesting year cause the first QB taken was Todd Marinovich.

Top five is DT, CB, FS, and OLB.

1992- Craptastic year. Sean Gilbert ( DT) surrounded by losers like Steve Emtman, Desmond Howard and Quintin Coryatt.

1993- Drew Bledsoe and Rick Mirer top two picks. Bledsoe was moderately successful Mirer not so much. Willie Roaf several picks down seems to have been the safer pick. This year maybe one of the reasons now tackles are taken higher.

fast forward past Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer and Big Dan Wilkerson.

1995- Warren Sapp drops because of some harmless herb. Kerry Collins and Steve McNair are passed over for Tony Boselli and a Penn State runningback. Boselli was the safe pick i guess and Ki-Jana Carter was the upside pick.

fast forward to the Manning era.

1998- Manning and Leaf. Then there is WOODSON. Corners are worthy of a top 2 pick. I bet you the Chargers wish they had taken Woodson.

1999- Year of the QB. Couch, McNabb, and AKILI SMITH. Question is if Ricky Williams was so coveted by Ditka why would four teams pass on him. Cause of the myth that QB's are better picks.

to be cont.

psssst someone already did the research.

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftquarterbackriskmyth.php

[Stroupe-a-loop]

Titans...uh who do they have? Only one I know is Young, a 1st rounder who has been guaranteed by the coach to not be coming back.

Rusty Smith aka Rusty Schackleford a sixth round pick out of FAU last year.