Jerry Rice: Accuracy, not race, the issue with Cam Newton

[ncmonzta]

So Mallett's rumors (with no related arrests) are a bigger deal than Newton being arrested? Is that it?

Exactly the kind of response I expected :D

And the stuff on Green and dareus isn't rumor. It's documented. there's also the accusation of Peterson getting pay-for-play (unproven).

yes in my personal opinion rumors of cocaine abuse is more of a concern than someone being arrested for "buying" a stolen laptop. I look at it like this, When Cam gets paid he can buy all the laptops he wants legally, If Mallet gets paid he can buy all the cocaine he wants, illegally. Tell me which is worse?

[DaCityKats]

Now there is a comment rich in ignorance.

Really? Worse than the Germans?

how is that so JOAT. Considering things such as slave trade, slavery, and jim crow laws man get real.(yes i know american whites were not the only group invloved in the slave trade)

germans did there wrong as well, but things such as lynchings and bombing churches ,(enslavement) for 100 plus years is ranked up there as well. by white americans

[Jackofalltrades]

yes in my personal opinion rumors of cocaine abuse is more of a concern than someone being arrested for "buying" a stolen laptop. I look at it like this, When Cam gets paid he can buy all the laptops he wants legally, If Mallet gets paid he can buy all the cocaine he wants, illegally. Tell me which is worse?

Both are bad, both are reasons to avoid drafting these guys.

[Millions]

It's been reduced to nothing more than points and counterpoints.

That's not even the first time that quote has been posted on here I remember Teeray posted the same exact quote around the time Luck stayed in school. An many started to see Newton as a real option for us. I remember someone saying how they were biased in that statement being his team mates/his coaches :nonod:

Same thing happens to the people that rip some of the negative comments to shreds like like Moon, Hurney went after Nawrocki's column.

[carpanfan96]

Wow, comparing Cocaine use to buying a stolen laptop.... Freaking insane.....

[Icege]

I still haven't been able to grasp the concept behind the argument of how this team will be prejudiced towards folks based on heritage if we draft a black DT/CB/WR instead of a black QB.

Though I am impressed that after only 4 hours this thread steamrolled through 20 pages. I'm only halfway through :(

[Udogg]

Lol.. I was just thinking. If middle east peace talks are half as bad as these forums there will never be peace.

[DaCityKats]

Actually, I don't have a problem with that comment, given history.

I do have a problem with the notion that because there was a load of racism in the past, all of us today somehow need to be punished for what happened in the past.

(and anyone denying that attitude is out there is just as wrong as anyone denying that racism exists)

true, but i dont think every white person is a racist.

edit: history dont lie, JOAT might want to go look back at some history books.

[ncmonzta]

Both are bad, both are reasons to avoid drafting these guys.

They are reasons some might avoid them. There are also teams that know people make mistakes and learn from them. I''ve done worse than Cam when I was younger and I thank God I never went to prison, but as I matured and learned from my mistakes I've changed and wont ever make those mistakes again I hardly drive over the speed limit now so people can change. Thats why I dont look at Cam like that, now Pacman Jones is another story

[Ruff]

Who do you want us to draft and how do you think that person will help us win games?

(This is from, like, page 8. But, this is my first chance to respond to this.)

Honestly? I'm still not really sure who I want us to take. There's so many good players at the top of the draft, without the clear-cut number one.

Who am I leaning towards? Marcell Dareus. I think he gives us something that we haven't had in years, a run-stopping defensive tackle. How do I think he will help us win games? He will free up Charles Johnson or Everett Brown more, and keep pressure off of the linebackers to make more plays. (Imagine Jon Beason making more plays. Yes. It's possible.)

But, I also don't think we should take Dareus because of the position he plays. Sounds hypocritical? It's not. Marcell Dareus has been a very, very good defensive tackle in a very good defense for a couple of years now. But, he's just that. A DT. There's nothing exciting about that pick. He doesn't get us the spotlight, or the media attention. He doesn't sell jerseys. He doesn't sell tickets. He just does the dirty work, and that would help us win.

I also don't mind the idea of drafting Cam Newton. Hell, if we didn't have the #1 pick, and were a little further back, I'd say take Cam all day long. Cam Newton is a huge risk/huge reward type player. No one is sure what he is going to be able to do at the next level. (Not Warren Moon. Not Jerry Rice.) No one is sure how he's going to act. (Because let's face it, he has had off the field issues.)

But, Cam brings attention. Cam brings media. Cam Newton sells jerseys because he is just so damn polarizing. Especially with out schedule coming out right now, and with us having no primetime games, I'm sure Jerry Richardson is more than a little upset about that. What would Cam do for the organization, if he had an above .500 record about halfway through the season, and one of the teams with a primetime slot started failing? Flex scheduling. That's what Cam brings. Excitement.

I also am keen on the idea of AJ Green, but I think he is third on my "who I think we should take" list. He is another one of those players that would bring excitement. Honestly, though? I don't think him and Steve Smith could co-exist for extended period of times. And, I think that we already have a core of young, decent receivers with a load of potential.

[Jackofalltrades]

how is that so JOAT. Considering things such as slave trade, slavery, and jim crow laws man get real.(yes i know american whites were not the only group invloved in the slave trade)

germans did there wrong as well, but things such as lynchings and bombing churches ,(enslavement) for 100 plus years is ranked up there as well. by white americans

Tinderbox.

[Mr. Scot]

yes in my personal opinion rumors of cocaine abuse is more of a concern than someone being arrested for "buying" a stolen laptop. I look at it like this, When Cam gets paid he can buy all the laptops he wants legally, If Mallet gets paid he can buy all the cocaine he wants, illegally. Tell me which is worse?

I could start a rumor about anyone using cocaine. Until there's something to support it, it's meaningless.

Rumors are not on the level of objective facts.

[Udogg]

I still haven't been able to grasp the concept behind the argument of how this team will be prejudiced towards folks based on heritage if we draft a black DT/CB/WR instead of a black QB.

Though I am impressed that after only 4 hours this thread steamrolled through 20 pages. I'm only halfway through :(

Well, since we are on this topic might as well post this article LeCharles Bentley wrote : http://http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/02/reverse-racism-alive-and-swell-in-nfl/

try this one

[blackcatgrowl]

Waiting for Blackcatgrowl and Panthro's rebuttal

A few things.

- We're in the middle of a big project at work, so taking time to reply to detailed posts is tough to do at the moment.

- You're still on ignore, so I typically have to intentionally view a post of yours to see what you're saying. I didn't notice your breakdown until Panthro replied to it.

- Here's my "rebuttal":

2. A wide open receiver streaking down the sideline has to turn completely around to make the catch - Not very accurate

1. The receiver wasn’t “Streaking”. He stutter-stepped and turned around. It was obviously a classic quick hitch route. Did you even notice that the defender flew ahead of him several steps? The play was designed for mid-range gain, not a bomb.

4. Wide open again running a streak and the receiver has to slow down but not turn around. He's so open it doesn't matter. The result is good but you'd like to see him hit him in stride. - Not very accurate

2. He hit the receiver in the numbers AT the goal line, along the side line. If he was “inaccurate”, the receiver wouldn’t have been able to adjust and make the catch.

7. Good ball on a seam route - on a frozen rope

10. Good pall on a post patter. It seemed the receiver had to reach back a little but it wasn't bad.

3 and 4. Two needles threaded you mean.

15. TD Catch

5. Lets stop on this one. The ball was put in the corner of end zone. Where no one else could make a play on it but his man. Lets give some credit here… hallmark pro-like pass. [edit: Proof that receivers don't always make the play]

16. Wide Open receiver again, this time puts it on the money on a streak. Nice pass.

6. THAT is a streak route. No stutter step to throw off the defender in front. No turn back. Beautiful pass.

18. Looks to be a good ball thrown in to traffic in the endzone but the video is too quick/grainy to tell

7. Dude… w/e you can see the receiver and defenders clearly enough. Good pass into traffic!

24. Wide Open again, receiver makes good adjustment in endzone to make catch.

8. Still hit him in the end zone. If it was a bad pass, it would have gone over his head and been uncatchable…

… also… you’ve not pointed out that in several plays in the highlight, he’s pump faking. He used it to great effect on this play.

26. Post/Seam patter that is thrown behind receiver in the endzone leading him back to the corner he is running away from and into danger - Not accurate

9. I might agree with you on this one. Still… it was a TD.

27. Crossing route/Drag in endzone. Guy was pretty open and the ball was okay. You'd like to see that ball placed where he can catch it near his eyes with his hands instead of having to reach down to make the grab, especially from such a short range.

10. But was that the receiver leading too far into the end zone? Or was it the defender forcing him further back? It’s a good pass either way… he caught it for a TD!

29. Corner Route- very open. Ball is thrown short and behind receiver so he has to slow down to make the catch and allowing the safety to close and make the play. It needs to be thrown toward the sideline so he can catch it in stride and avoid the safety.

11. Actually, I saw a throw to a receiver who had already slowed down. If anything Newton adjusted the throw to hit the man who didn’t run the route through. If you notice, the receiver had to jump forward a bit to get it.

So, in reality, we have 11 passes [edit: one of which Newton was the receiver for]. 10 of them were awesome. 1 of them MIGHT have been a little akward.

And what this tells me too, is you have no eye for play development. You see the QB as the be-all-end-all in pass completion. This is a wholly invalid way to assess play development.

This also tells me too, that you assume (as we know you do) that you KNOW THE PLAY AS CALLED. You are incorrectly assuming hitches are streaks.

In essence, your assessment of football makes me /facepalm hard, and if you really did have professional experience with Pro Football, I cry for the team you worked with.

If I was looking at ANY QB with your lack of analytical prowess, they would ALL suck.