I do not want Newton, Do you?

[Tarheels23]

More funnier?

Oh wow, correcting a grammatical error, that's original!

[mav1234]

Actually if you go back and read the thread you were desperately trying to make your point by continuously referring to those games over and over again when everybody else was talking about his performance overall.

Then another poster mentioned that during your cherry picked games that the running game was going really strong and you refuted it.

The only reason those 5 games were a part of the discussion is because YOU brought them up. :lol: Thank you for referring me back to prove my own point :rofl:

Do you consider it "cherry picking games" to only judge a guy off of the games he starts?

[rippadonn]

I think we all need to stop trying to convince each other who we should or shouldn't take..I have my reasons for liking Cam as our pick, and everyone else has their own reasons why to like/not like him. Whether or not we draft him..it's not up to us to prove us right or wrong..It's up to Newton. No amount of arguing about what he has done or will do can change that. Are we just arguing for arguments sake by now? We can't change anybody's opinion this late in the game..

:iagree:

After the draft we will all have one desire after that and that will be to put our foot deep in the arses of the NFC South once again.

[MadHatter]

Newton makes me very nervous. His bust potential is very high.

Just like every other "great athlete playing QB" that was supposed to redefine the position, I just feel like Newton will also fail.

I may be wrong and I may be right.....only time will tell.

However, if the staff believe his is the franchise guy we need....I will cheer for him and support him as the QB of my favorite team.

[TheRealDeal]

That's what I said frank!

Oh wow, correcting a grammatical error, that's original!

Did you not know why I asked the first time?

I'm usually okay with grammatical errors but when it's that bad I have to ask.

It just made me laugh

[Tarheels23]

Did you not know why I asked the first time?

I'm usually okay with grammatical errors but when it's that bad I have to ask.

It just made me laugh

Mo Funnier! Is that better sir?

[teeray]

Do you consider it "cherry picking games" to only judge a guy off of the games he starts?

He has started more than 4 games so... and why not judge him on ALL of his snaps (besides hail mary plays)??

[antame]

Newton makes me very nervous. His bust potential is very high.

Just like every other "great athlete playing QB" that was supposed to redefine the position, I just feel like Newton will also fail.

I may be wrong and I may be right.....only time will tell.

However, if the staff believe his is the franchise guy we need....I will cheer for him and support him as the QB of my favorite team.

See, I think Newton's bust potential is extremely low, unless you're expecting him to "redefine the position", which I don't think is going to happen any time soon in the NFL.

Whether he'll be a great QB I have no idea, but I would bet the house he'll at least be pretty good, and for this Panthers team, I'll take it.

[mav1234]

He has started more than 4 games so... and why not judge him on ALL of his snaps (besides hail mary plays)??

Because if a player doesn't start a game but gets put in, it usually means one of two things:

1) the game is basically over and that player is being tossed into a poor situation where things have already gone badly for the team. The player has likely had limited preparation for that particular game and is at a severe disadvantage.

2) the game is basically over and that player is being tossed into a situation that is exceptionally good for the team. The player is going to benefit from how well the game has gone up to that point.

There are obviously exceptions. Still, these two categories can grossly inflate a player in one or the other direction.

At the same time, you are right that you should look at a guy on all his snaps. Still, relief efforts just simply can't be as important in evaluating a guy as the games that player starts in.

[antame]

Newton makes me very nervous. His bust potential is very high.

Just like every other "great athlete playing QB" that was supposed to redefine the position, I just feel like Newton will also fail.

I may be wrong and I may be right.....only time will tell.

However, if the staff believe his is the franchise guy we need....I will cheer for him and support him as the QB of my favorite team.

By the way, I have reservations about "athletic QBs" as well, but in this case we're talking about a guy whose physical stature exceeds the NFL paradigm, can run and throw and doesn't appear to be hooked on cough syrup.

[teeray]

Because if a player doesn't start a game but gets put in, it usually means one of two things:

1) the game is basically over and that player is being tossed into a poor situation where things have already gone badly for the team. The player has likely had limited preparation for that particular game and is at a severe disadvantage.

2) the game is basically over and that player is being tossed into a situation that is exceptionally good for the team. The player is going to benefit from how well the game has gone up to that point.

There are obviously exceptions. Still, these two categories can grossly inflate a player in one or the other direction.

At the same time, you are right that you should look at a guy on all his snaps. Still, relief efforts just simply can't be as important in evaluating a guy as the games that player starts in.

Well MAV you make a good point but if that is the case should we start putting qualifications on the games he did start. What it meant to us, or the other team, did he play starters, or weather conditions, etc.

But even so, as the leader of the team and a professional wouldn't you expect a full effort to the best of his abilities on every play no matter the time, score, situation??

If you are a QB trying to earn the respect of your teammates and coaches those are the exact situations where you have to rise to the occasion and seize the moment. Not make excuses (not saying he did but some of his supporters do).

Jake came into the game in the second half against Jacksonville down 17 points . He could have easily just gone through the motions and considered it a throw away game but instead he came in and slapped everyone's helmets, gave a pep talk, and let an incredible comeback that was a springboard to a Super Bowl appearance (I remember some things TRD :p)

As a result he won the locker room and solidified himself as the starter.

[ncmonzta]

See, I think Newton's bust potential is extremely low, unless you're expecting him to "redefine the position", which I don't think is going to happen any time soon in the NFL.

Whether he'll be a great QB I have no idea, but I would bet the house he'll at least be pretty good, and for this Panthers team, I'll take it.

I agree. If he can be as good as Josh Freeman was this year on a consistent basis,with the rest of our team, we're good enough to make the playoffs consistently

[mav1234]

Well MAV you make a good point but if that is the case should we start putting qualifications on the games he did start. What it meant to us, or the other team, did he play starters, or weather conditions, etc.

This is a pretty big reach IMO. There's a difference between starting a game and not starting a game, for a quarterback especially, due to everything from leadership pregame to preparation. This is not some slippery slope here... but that doesn't mean starts are the only thing you can EVER look at, it just means they can mean a bit more.

But even so, as the leader of the team and a professional wouldn't you expect a full effort to the best of his abilities on every play no matter the time, score, situation??

If you are a QB trying to earn the respect of your teammates and coaches those are the exact situations where you have to rise to the occasion and seize the moment. Not make excuses (not saying he did but some of his supporters do).

Obviously, he still tries his best. I'm not saying he *takes plays off*, I'm saying that the situation is such that while you don't just *throw away* what a player does in relief of another, you have to consider that it was not him starting that game and it is only one small piece of your eval of a guy.

Jake came into the game in the second half against Jacksonville down 17 points . He could have easily just gone through the motions and considered it a throw away game but instead he came in and slapped everyone's helmets, gave a pep talk, and let an incredible comeback that was a springboard to a Super Bowl appearance (I remember some things TRD :p)

As a result he won the locker room and solidified himself as the starter.

Obviously, when you come in at the half and you play as hard as Jake did, it turns some heads... both coaches and players, and it should. Plus, considering he played through the rest of the season, it's not surprising to just consider that a full season of play. It's quite a bit different though than if he had played against Jax and then sat out the next 3 weeks.

[teeray]

This is a pretty big reach IMO. There's a difference between starting a game and not starting a game, for a quarterback especially, due to everything from leadership pregame to preparation. This is not some slippery slope here... but that doesn't mean starts are the only thing you can EVER look at, it just means they can mean a bit more.

It may mean more but some have tried to say that it means nothing. They have pretty much said we can only use stats from his starts. And regardless it is still cherry picking stats. Much in the same way people accuse Huggers of cherry picking stats when we use the last 6 games of the season as the best games to judge Cam because at the beginning of the year he was still learning the playbook and adjusting to big time football.

Obviously, he still tries his best. I'm not saying he *takes plays off*, I'm saying that the situation is such that while you don't just *throw away* what a player does in relief of another, you have to consider that it was not him starting that game and it is only one small piece of your eval of a guy.

Same answer as above.

Obviously, when you come in at the half and you play as hard as Jake did, it turns some heads... both coaches and players, and it should. Plus, considering he played through the rest of the season, it's not surprising to just consider that a full season of play. It's quite a bit different though than if he had played against Jax and then sat out the next 3 weeks.

Matt Moore hasn't had a moment like Jake's in a meaningful game yet.