Not a reach, and not gonna set us back.

[Highlandfire]

I was having a discussion in the other thread and Highlandfire brought this up:

I responded:

Now, if you don't agree, realistically explain to me how we are going to stockpile picks (and for who, or what), how picking at number 1 will be a "reach", and, most importantly, how making a pick for like Green or PP or Newton is going to really "set this franchise back"

With things as they are---the reality of the situation---the only reach I see is reaching for the stars. The real reach was last year when we traded up for AE (who I am still hoping will be worth it). If there is a setting back of the franchise, the set back took place in last year's draft. To me the whole idea of "setting us back" and "reaching for a QB" is just lip service. This draft ain't gonna kill us either way. In fact, we are in a position to do more good than harm. It's a roll of the dice, but we aren't betting the farm either way.

I am sorry you dont understand why pretty much every pick in this draft at #1 overall is a reach.

Next EVERY QB in this draft has more questions than positives esp at the #1 overall pick. When you take a guy #1 overall you are going to invest a ton of time and money into the guy. You fug up the pick, you waste the teams time and money. As for as QB we don't have a clear cut veteran starter that can get us going while this kid sits for 2 years (and every QB in this draft really does need at least 2 years on the bench. Aaron Rogers sat for 3).

Trading back and stockpiling picks = more shots at getting quality talent on your team. Would you rather sit with #1 or be in the position the Patriots are in with 1 Firsts, 2 seconds and 2 3rds this year? Any football fan worth a damn takes the pats situation every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Guess what? I bet the pats trade down again to get more picks for next year. That is why from top to bottom they have an extremely talented team each year.

This team has needs plural, you address those with more and more talent on the team, the way to do that is stockpile more picks and have more guys to add to the team.

As for as setting a franchise back, Ask Arizona and esp Detroit how fuging up top 5 picks screwed their franchise. Hell ask Buffalo for that matter. Their team is full of other teams backups. It will take another 2 years to sort that mess out.

When you have #1 overall you don't reach (all QB's at #1 this year are a reach), and you don't fug up the pick. Sorry folks we got #1 overall in a really shitty year overall for the draft. Had we got to have free agency maybe things would be better but we don't and won't before the draft.

I am only 42 but I have seen teams year after year fug up the draft and more often than not it sets the team back. Ever wonder why more often than not.

[Highlandfire]

If there is a guy in the draft who we feel can be a franchise QB for us in the future, whether he be like peyton manning, or tom brady, you have to take him. Doesn't matter if it's cam newton, Blaine Gabbert, or even Tyrod freaking Taylor. It's not a reach if you think he will be worth it.

there are no reaches for draft picks at #1 overall, because you have your pick of everyone. the pick won't be considered a reach until 3 or 4 years from now. it will however, have BEEN a reach if he doesn't pan out.

That is why I am on the franchise QB bandwagon.

Wrong! It is not a reach if you KNOW the guy is going to be good and there are clear cut guys that should be #1. There isn't one in this draft overall or at QB.

There is no Bradford, Stafford, Aikman, or Payton Manning that is clear cut a guy you know will succeed unless you fug him up by not coaching him well or putting a decent team around him.

[Millions]

Wrong! It is not a reach if you KNOW the guy is going to be good and there are clear cut guys that should be #1. There isn't one in this draft overall or at QB.

There is no Bradford, Stafford, Aikman, or Payton Manning that is clear cut a guy you know will succeed unless you fug him up by not coaching him well or putting a decent team around him.

These predictions for various prospects make me :lol: how the hell do you know who will pan out or not...THIS is why I think some guys wont accept if Cam is the pick or not regardless how much they claim they'll support him if Hurney/Rivera think he can be the franchise guy.

[OneBadassCat]

I don't understand this notion that you guys think we will get Luck next year. If Newton busts he's going to have a bust period of 2-3 years. They won't take Luck next year if we suck. And yes for that reason it will set us back.

[teeray]

I don't understand this notion that you guys think we will get Luck next year. If Newton busts he's going to have a bust period of 2-3 years. They won't take Luck next year if we suck.

The way people talk about Luck you would think that the Colts might even try to trade up to get him.

They might package Peyton Manning with a couple of draft picks to make sure they get the real GOAT.

[grateflday]

...Next EVERY QB in this draft has more questions than positives esp at the #1 overall pick. When you take a guy #1 overall you are going to invest a ton of time and money into the guy. You fug up the pick, you waste the teams time and money. As for as QB we don't have a clear cut veteran starter that can get us going while this kid sits for 2 years (and every QB in this draft really does need at least 2 years on the bench. Aaron Rogers sat for 3).

Trading back and stockpiling picks = more shots at getting quality talent on your team. Would you rather sit with #1 or be in the position the Patriots are in with 1 Firsts, 2 seconds and 2 3rds this year? Any football fan worth a damn takes the pats situation every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Guess what? I bet the pats trade down again to get more picks for next year. That is why from top to bottom they have an extremely talented team each year.

This team has needs plural, you address those with more and more talent on the team, the way to do that is stockpile more picks and have more guys to add to the team.

As for as setting a franchise back, Ask Arizona and esp Detroit how fuging up top 5 picks screwed their franchise. Hell ask Buffalo for that matter. Their team is full of other teams backups. It will take another 2 years to sort that mess out.

When you have #1 overall you don't reach (all QB's at #1 this year are a reach), and you don't fug up the pick. Sorry folks we got #1 overall in a really pooty year overall for the draft. Had we got to have free agency maybe things would be better but we don't and won't before the draft.

I am only 42 but I have seen teams year after year fug up the draft and more often than not it sets the team back. Ever wonder why more often than not.

1) Passing on a QB because we dont have a Vet starter is the wrong reason. Because a) the plan is to bring one in ... and b) if they dont bring one in and the Panthers are in the same postion next year they still wont have a Vet starter or need to bring one in, so based on this arguement the Panthers would then have to pass on a QB next year. (Oh, thats right, I forget... every QB that will be available in next years draft wont need a Vet to come in behind because HE will be ready to start right away. :idea:) c) if they do bring in a Vet, wait till next year... you still have NO idea what draft spot you will be in, what it might cost to move up to get a QB, and really have not idea nor have vetted or done due dilegence on any of them so they so its all unknown.

2) Comparing what the Patriots due with stock piling picks is completely NOT the same situation as the Panthers. THEY HAVE A FRANCHISE QB!!!

3) Comparing AZ and Detroit to our situation is the arguement TO draft Cam. Correct me if I am wrong but the only QB either picked early that didnt work out was Leinart and that was it. The rest of all their picks were position players. So, going position players also does not guarantee success as you have pointed out. Detroit did learn and went QB early in 2009.

Bottom line is people are so worried about setting this franchise back and the risk of drafting Cam BUT its way more risky to pass and then have to count on some unknown guy to get next year which will also most likely cost several high future draft picks to move up in get. Unless of course you are counting on the Panthers sucking a** again and being at #1.

[prowler2k8]

I am sorry you dont understand why pretty much every pick in this draft at #1 overall is a reach.

Next EVERY QB in this draft has more questions than positives esp at the #1 overall pick. When you take a guy #1 overall you are going to invest a ton of time and money into the guy. You fug up the pick, you waste the teams time and money. As for as QB we don't have a clear cut veteran starter that can get us going while this kid sits for 2 years (and every QB in this draft really does need at least 2 years on the bench. Aaron Rogers sat for 3).

Trading back and stockpiling picks = more shots at getting quality talent on your team. Would you rather sit with #1 or be in the position the Patriots are in with 1 Firsts, 2 seconds and 2 3rds this year? Any football fan worth a damn takes the pats situation every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Guess what? I bet the pats trade down again to get more picks for next year. That is why from top to bottom they have an extremely talented team each year. This team has needs plural, you address those with more and more talent on the team, the way to do that is stockpile more picks and have more guys to add to the team.

As for as setting a franchise back, Ask Arizona and esp Detroit how fuging up top 5 picks screwed their franchise. Hell ask Buffalo for that matter. Their team is full of other teams backups. It will take another 2 years to sort that mess out.

When you have #1 overall you don't reach (all QB's at #1 this year are a reach), and you don't fug up the pick. Sorry folks we got #1 overall in a really pooty year overall for the draft. Had we got to have free agency maybe things would be better but we don't and won't before the draft.

I am only 42 but I have seen teams year after year fug up the draft and more often than not it sets the team back. Ever wonder why more often than not.

The problem with this line of reasoning is, unlike the Panthers, the Patriots don't have a huge need @ QB. As someone said, there's a greater risk of passing on Cam Newton this year in the hopes of stockpiling picks to get Andrew Luck (or another potential franchise QB) next year. What are the odds of the Panthers missing out on a top tier player by trading down too far, especially in a weak draft? How far up and how much would the Panthers have to trade to get the #1 pick in 2012? What if next year's QBs end up being busts while Cam Newton works his way to a successful NFL career w/another team?

Of course, no one really knows the answer, but waiting could end up being a bigger gamble/risk that will truly set the franchise back for some years.

As the saying goes " a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

[OneBadassCat]

I think the fact that we don't currently have a 2nd round pick makes Cam an even bigger risk. If he fails then we essentially missed out on the top talents in the 2011 draft when we could have fortified some positions of need.

[teeray]

3) Comparing AZ and Detroit to our situation is the arguement TO draft Cam. Correct me if I am wrong but the only QB either picked early that didnt work out was Leinart and that was it. The rest of all their picks were position players. So, going position players also does not guarantee success as you have pointed out. Detroit did learn and went QB early in 2009.

Throw in the Buffalo Bills who have NEVER used their first pick in the draft on a QB in their history. Ever. How many Super Bowls do they got???

The #1 thing holding this franchise back IS not having a QB. You are talking about setting a franchise back.... we are back. The reason we are set back right now is because of our refusal to take the QB position seriously to this point.

[teeray]

I think the fact that we don't currently have a 2nd round pick makes Cam an even bigger risk. If he fails then we essentially missed out on the top talents in the 2011 draft when we could have fortified some positions of need.

If there is someone we just HAVE to have in the second we can trade back in if we have to. We have two thirds and we can use one or both in a package to get back in the second.

Really DT is so deep this year there will be some good ones in the third.

[Millions]

Throw in the Buffalo Bills who have NEVER used their first pick in the draft on a QB in their history. Ever. How many Super Bowls do they got???

The #1 thing holding this franchise back IS not having a QB. You are talking about setting a franchise back.... we are back. The reason we are set back right now is because of our refusal to take the QB position seriously to this point.

:iagree: So much truth to that very statement sad but true.

[prowler2k8]

If there is someone we just HAVE to have in the second we can trade back in if we have to. We have two thirds and we can use one or both in a package to get back in the second.Really DT is so deep this year there will be some good ones in the third.

Actually, from what I've read, we can't trade comp picks. You may want to confirm. Otherwise, I agree with what you're saying and we can probably use a future pick (I know that's not popular thinking on the Huddle) and combined it with a pick this year to move into the 2nd if there's a player we feel is worth it.

[OneBadassCat]

If we trade a future 1st again there will be hell to pay.

The good thing about our two 3rd's is that one of them is right after the 2nd round so we could still maybe luck out and grab someone who fell.

[Wyank]

We have two thirds and we can use one or both in a package to get back in the second.

I'm pretty sure compensatory picks can't be traded.

Edit: yeah what Prowler said