Kiper: Panthers Should Trade Down

[mav1234]

So do plenty of other people.

Giving some background to why he thinks we should trade down, not trying to discredit him.

If you think Clausen might turn out okay, the idea of drafting a QB #1 overall seems strange. At the same time, QBs have gone #1 overall so many times... and with what a good one can do for a club it makes sense.

[CRA]

Kiper has several valid points in his discussion of Clausen.

He was put in the absolute worst possible situation in Carolina last season. We had rookie WR's, a lame duck coach who had zero interest in having a rookie QB, the worst OC and playcalling in the league. Fox did NOTHING to try and work an offense aroudn Clausen (like the Rams did with Bradford). He was more interested in sticking it to Richardson on his way out the door.

How much of the failures at QB last season were due to Clausen's ability and how much were due to all of the other factors? That is the question.

And, none of us can realistically answer it. Yet, all of the Cam supporters want to toss a rookie QB in the trash who was forced into action before he was ready...had God Awful Coaching...etc. Yet, you want to take Cam and park him on the bench to learn....an idea that you in no way afforded Calusen.

yet most thought it was an ideal situation heading in......and cling to 3 bad quarters by Matt Moore as some solid proof Clausen was doomed.

had a pro bowl WR he frustrated and ignored

Fox pretty much kept on keeping on like always.....team didn't get less from him than in any other season. Clausen got the same caliber of coaching Moore got in 07 and was asked to do basically the same thing.

regardless, Clausen's performance was probably the worst rookie showing in 20 years and showed zero growth while sucking......therefore the excuses aren't worth it.

[jarhead]

Kipers comment is stating the obvious.Not having a 2nd round pick is a dissmal situation to be in given our obvious needs at several positions.Even the Newton advocates admit Cam will make very little impact on next years results.It indeed may be a distraction or a negative in trying to bring in a veteran qb to run the show next year.My feeling is the Panthers would like to be in a spot where they feel less obligated to pick a QB.but I do not see it happening.

[CRA]

Kipers comment is stating the obvious.Not having a 2nd round pick is a dissmal situation to be in given our obvious needs at several positions.Even the Newton advocates admit Cam will make very little impact on next years results.It indeed may be a distraction or a negative in trying to bring in a veteran qb to run the show next year.My feeling is the Panthers would like to be in a spot where they feel less obligated to pick a QB.but I do not see it happening.

starting any QB over Clausen is likely to make a fairly noticeable improvement.

[jarhead]

Kiper has a personal interest in hoping Clausen does better. He is buddies with Clausen's agent and spent all of last offseason hyping the Jimmy as the most pro-ready QB in the draft. LOL Kiper.

What differance does Kipers opinion mean.What I would like to know what is Riverias opinion of Clausen.

[jarhead]

starting any QB over Clausen is likely to make a fairly noticeable improvement.

I agree he was pretty bad in my opinion.

[CRA]

What differance does Kipers opinion mean.What I would like to know what is Riverias opinion of Clausen.

the first day he stepped foot in Carolina he started his campaign talking about finding his franchise QB......he repeatedly has talked about that to anyone who listens.

When teams use a high pick on a QB they are confident in and are grooming, they normally endorse him as such.

Rivera has commented that they will have to see if Jimmy fits anywhere.

[Pox 08]

yet most thought it was an ideal situation heading in......and cling to 3 bad quarters by Matt Moore as some solid proof Clausen was doomed.

had a pro bowl WR he frustrated and ignored

Fox pretty much kept on keeping on like always.....team didn't get less from him than in any other season. Clausen got the same caliber of coaching Moore got in 07 and was asked to do basically the same thing.

regardless, Clausen's performance was probably the worst rookie showing in 20 years and showed zero growth while sucking......therefore the excuses aren't worth it.

They thought that before the season started and Fox and our team proved them wrong.

How many times can a team dial up extremely vanilla play calling before the rest of the league figures it out and shuts them down? The answer is around two years worth, give or take.

I know Clausen showed little, if any, potential last year. I just have a hard time believing any qb, let alone a rookie, would have anything good to show for last season, when opposing defenses seemed to know exactly what plays you were calling, before you called them, due to having the most predictable OC in the league.

[CRA]

They thought that before the season started and Fox and our team proved them wrong.

How many times can a team dial up extremely vanilla play calling before the rest of the league figures it out and shuts them down? The answer is around two years, give or take.

I know Clausen showed little, if any, potential last year. I just have a hard time believing any qb, let alone a rookie, would have anything good to show for last season, when opposing defenses seemed to know exactly what plays you were calling, before you called them, due to having the most predictable OC in the league.

nah, look at 09. Same plays as 08 and everyone knew what as coming....Jake played poorly. Couldn't throw the ball anywhere. Insert Moore who played well with the the same predictable garbage and Carolina won.

Davidson/Fox certainly didn't make life easy....but horrific QB play is horrific QB play. Jake in 09 and Clausen in 10 just sucked.....would have sucked anywhere.

[DaCityKats]

the thrown to the wolves analogy is true but only to a certain extent. jimmy showed no progression at all in 10+ games and that is a problem. the play calling was bad, but it was pretty basic because the starting qb was a rook. but even than, he still could not execute to a certain level that he should have been able to.

i for one remember seeing wr running wide open, so as vanilla as the scheme was something was working.

[mav1234]

at least by the end of it I felt confident he wouldn't fumble handing the ball to our running backs. That's progress, I'd say.

...also he had a couple decent Fox-ball games and a number of nice halves, but nothing to write home about. =|

[Pox 08]

nah, look at 09. Same plays as 08 and everyone knew what as coming....Jake played poorly. Couldn't throw the ball anywhere. Insert Moore who played well with the the same predictable garbage and Carolina won.

Davidson/Fox certainly didn't make life easy....but horrific QB play is horrific QB play. Jake in 09 and Clausen in 10 just sucked.....would have sucked anywhere.

I'm not trying to take away from Moore and what he did in '09, but over the course of those 5 games, the Oline, even as makeshift as it was, was performing at a relatively high level. Only 8 sacks in those 5 games. What is that? like 1.6 sacks a game? I don't remember him getting knocked down after throws or hit that much either. The run game was averaging over 166 yards a game, 830+yards total .

The Oline play last year was sketchy. The sack number doesn't show how poorly they were in some games. (not all games mind you.) Our Qbs didn't stand a chance. As soon as the ball was snapped in a lot of the games, it seemed a defender was already back there knocking the hell out of our qb. That coupled with the play calling, how is a qb going to succeed? What inexperienced qb is going to get pounded on, hard, like 15+ times a game and actually look good?

[MadHatter]

the first day he stepped foot in Carolina he started his campaign talking about finding his franchise QB......he repeatedly has talked about that to anyone who listens.

When teams use a high pick on a QB they are confident in and are grooming, they normally endorse him as such.

Rivera has commented that they will have to see if Jimmy fits anywhere.

I am not advocating the opinion tha tJimmy is a franchise QB. Just that I don't think any of the QB's in this draft are either.

As such, I do not want to use a #1 pick on a QB who is not likely to be a frachise QB...just because they are the best QB in a weak class.

I think that this is what Kiper is getting at.

The QB's at the top are not worth it. The Panthers would be better off trading down and picking up another pick or two. Look for a stop-gap AB in FA...then address the franchise QB later when actual frachise QB's are in the draft.

Remember.....if you go home with the best looking ugly chick in the bar, you still went home with an ugly chick.

[CarolinaNut]

the first day he stepped foot in Carolina he started his campaign talking about finding his franchise QB......he repeatedly has talked about that to anyone who listens.

When teams use a high pick on a QB they are confident in and are grooming, they normally endorse him as such.

Rivera has commented that they will have to see if Jimmy fits anywhere.

even hurney has been talking about needing to find a QB...he's said this almost any chance he's gotten...he may still believe in clausen but he's not stupid, he can't just assume clausen will get it together...not based off what clausen did last year at least...clausen was fool's gold that fell into hurney's lap and hurney was fooled