Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder under center

[mav1234]

How he feels pressure is the only thing that concerns me, but it is something that you can work on with players. This was a concern for Bradford too, at least according to some, and I honestly think with the right coaches it can be dealt with. Part of it is getting the player used to the NFL game speed, and the other is just making sure they know what to do when.

Gabbert can feel pressure (though usually he sees it, which isn't the best thing), but instead of just stepping up he'll look to escape and extend plays. This is a problem. Luckily he's athletic and can extend plays with his legs, escape guys and find open men down field.

BTW, why do you think he can't avoid pass rushers? Gabbert is fast and athletic and has shaken free of guys and made some dudes miss in the past. He may not be a 260 lb Big Ben but he certainly is athletic enough to avoid a rush.

[pantherclaw]

Now that i think about i can't put a finger on why wienke failed?

He was seifert's insurance plan for lewis.

wienke then started the first game, and we won it, thanks to no major mistakes, and steve smith being the bad ass returner he was.

That season there was no running game, as seifert didn't believe in running the ball. That put a lot of pressure on a rookie, that often had our team in the lead going into the 4th quarter. Without any running game, and a defense that bent and broke often, giving up the lead in at least 9 games.

Fox came in, and weinke was never a guy fox really wanted.

[Catalyst]

How he feels pressure is the only thing that concerns me, but it is something that you can work on with players. This was a concern for Bradford too, at least according to some, and I honestly think with the right coaches it can be dealt with. Part of it is getting the player used to the NFL game speed, and the other is just making sure they know what to do when.

Gabbert can feel pressure (though usually he sees it, which isn't the best thing), but instead of just stepping up he'll look to escape and extend plays. This is a problem. Luckily he's athletic and can extend plays with his legs, escape guys and find open men down field.

BTW, why do you think he can't avoid pass rushers? Gabbert is fast and athletic and has shaken free of guys and made some dudes miss in the past. He may not be a 260 lb Big Ben but he certainly is athletic enough to avoid a rush.

He can avoid them, but he does it way too early, IMO. You gotta wait until the pressure is right on top of you before scrambling away, not run to the side when the defensive end is 5 feet away. Say what you will about Newton, handling pressure isn't an issue with him.

And let's not forget, our passing game is based on the deep ball now. That's a strength of Newton's and a weakness of Gabbert's. That right there makes this decision easy, IMO.

[MHS831]

I think you are bias. Now I'll admit watching this makes me warm up to gabbert,but it also masks his flaws. He looks great in shorts throwing against air, his real problem was throwing against the pass rush. Gabby gets happy feet and bails on The pocket to soon.

Gabbert is nowhere near as athletic as newton. Yes they had similar 40 times but if look at all of the drills cam beats gab in all. If you look at them on the move gab looks stiff and klunky. Cam looks looks like an athlete at quarterback. The upside that cam has that gabbert can match is due to all of this.

Gabbert has good size,cam has rare freakish size. The things cam does on the run isn't suppose to be possible in the body of a man that big. Plus his arm is as good as it Gets in the NFL. If you as me who's more ready to start it's easy it's gabbert. Who has more potential and throws a better deep ball..... I think you already know.

So if you begin a rebuttle by calling the writer biased, does that mean you are not?

Cam hams find 1-2 things he does better and cling to them. College stats do not matter.

Cam's arm STRENGTH is fine, but it is not accurate, so it is not "as good as it gets."

Gabbert is more ready to start (your words) but Cam is the pick-- which means that you expect Cam to grow at a faster rate than Gabbert, the more cerebral QB. Why is that?

Cam is a better athlete than Gabbert because Gabbert looks clunky. He is also a better athlete than Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Big Ben, Favre, Montana, Unitas, Moon, etc. Does he have more upside?

You do not prove upside. You select a few of Cam's strengths and ignore the more important issues that derail athletic players. You described Ryan Leaf (go back and read some 1998 articles), Akili Smith, Vince Young, The Golden Calf of Bristol, etc. That is not upside. It is fool's gold.

[monstercat]

Now that i think about i can't put a finger on why wienke failed?

Weinke failed because he was a big ole stationary target in the pocket and he couldn't make decisions fast enough to make up for it.

Ponder is nothing like Weinke. He was able to move around better with a bad leg in 09 than Weinke ever could, and no coach was going to change that.

[Catalyst]

The Golden Calf of Bristol will be a stud for Denver as well. I actually think The Golden Calf of Bristol & Newton will open things up for a bunch of athletic spread QB's in the NFL.

Why I like Newton over Gabbert:

1. Cam is a winner: Do not underestimate how important this is. College stats are meaningless? Perhaps, but being a winner is not and Cam has won at every level he's ever played at. Gabbert can't say the same thing. It's not close here.

2. Cam's accuracy is better than advertised. People look at his combine workout and say he's got accuracy issues, but they forget that he's just now learning how to take 3-5-7 step drops and developing his footwork. Those two things will affect his accuracy a LOT. If you take a look at the Universal Draft film from the prospect highlight thread you'll see that his accuracy is actually not bad at all - and that's from the shotgun with mediocre footwork. Once he is coached on the proper footwork and drops by NFL coaches his accuracy should actually improve from what it was at Auburn.

3. Gabbert crumbles under pressure. This has been well documented; anytime a defender gets within 5 feet of Gabbert, he takes off running rather than doing what an NFL QB has to do: stand in the pocket until the last possible second, then buy time if necessary and make the play. I haven't seen a single thing from Gabbert that leads me to believe he's capable of this. Newton, on the other hand, has Rodgers/Roethlisberger type mobility when under pressure and is perhaps at his best when improvising.

4. Gabbert has MAJOR deep accuracy issues. Considering that we're switching to a vertical passing offense, I'd say that's just a little important, wouldn't you? Meanwhile, Newton's deep ball is one of his strengths.

5. Newton is one of a kind. There's a Blaine Gabbert in every draft; semi-athletic college spread QB who looks the part. He may very well turn out to be a solid NFL QB, but I firmly believe he doesn't have star potential. Newton on the other hand, is a rare talent with absolute superstar potential and practically unlimited upside. I've actually heard it said that Newton is only "slightly" better as an athlete than Gabbert... that's laughable. Newton has size rarely seen at the QB position; only few QB's have ever come along with his blend of size, speed, arm strength, winning pedigree, and intangibles. We can wait a year and get a Gabbert clone if we want; Newton is the kind of talent that comes along once in a decade.

[TerriblePizza]

I like Gabbert after watching that film, but I still don't like him at #1 overall. If I were in the 10-15 range, hell yes I'd take him. I need to see more before I feel confident drafting him at #1

[sharkman]

I know Christian Ponder looks the part....but was he that guy who freaked out drunk outside of a frat party buck naked and claimed himself to be Jesus Christ???

If it was, that should be the biggest red flag ever.

lmao no that was years ago. as a Fsu fan, that was the funniest thing ever. I believe the kids name was wyatt sexton.

A doctor examined the 20-year-old and determined that it was Lyme disease, which is caused by a tick bite and can have neuropsychiatric effects.

The Sexton family responded in a statement that it had "been hurtful to Wyatt and our family to see media reports that were simply not true."

[chef17]

So if you begin a rebuttle by calling the writer biased, does that mean you are not?

Cam hams find 1-2 things he does better and cling to them. College stats do not matter.

Cam's arm STRENGTH is fine, but it is not accurate, so it is not "as good as it gets."

Gabbert is more ready to start (your words) but Cam is the pick-- which means that you expect Cam to grow at a faster rate than Gabbert, the more cerebral QB. Why is that?

Cam is a better athlete than Gabbert because Gabbert looks clunky. He is also a better athlete than Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Big Ben, Favre, Montana, Unitas, Moon, etc. Does he have more upside?

You do not prove upside. You select a few of Cam's strengths and ignore the more important issues that derail athletic players. You described Ryan Leaf (go back and read some 1998 articles), Akili Smith, Vince Young, The Golden Calf of Bristol, etc. That is not upside. It is fool's gold.

In a thread aboout Gabbert and Ponder you bring up Cam. That clearly shows bias on your part. Just saying.

[ncmonzta]

All that throwing in shorts on an edited TV show looks good. I like to see what they do in games and when I do that you already know how I feel about Gabbert. Like someone else said has the intangibles to be a good not great QB. I don't want a QB that breaks under pressure; our line struggles with protection and injuries pretty often. Again if he can't throw the deep ball he shouldn't even be discussed and he's not even as accurate as the other guy going for the #1 pick. I like that he can digest the play in a nice comfortable setting, he doesn't look so doing it in-game.

[Urrymonster]

Gabbert's lack of ability to deal with a pass rush REALLY concerns me. Name one QB in the NFL who is elite that can't avoid pass rushers (Rodgers, Big Ben) or at least stand in there and deliver the ball accurately at the last second (Manning, Brady).

No QB can make it in the NFL by panicking when defenders get within 5 feet of him. That's what I see with Gabbert.

In 171 drop backs that Tom Brady was pressured he completed 53.2% of his passes at 6.4 yards per attempt. He was sacked 30 times.

In 185 drop backs that Peyton Manning was pressured he completed 54.4% of his passes at 6.7 yards per attempt with 6:8 TD/Int ratio. He was sacked 30 times.

In 198 drop backs that Aaron Rodgers was pressured he completed 49.3% of his passes at 6.4 yards per attempt with 5:7 TD/Int ratio. He was sacked 38 times.

In 194 drop backs that Ben Roethlisberger was pressured, he completed 51.7% of his passes at 7.5 yards per attempt with 7:4 TD/Int ratio. He was sacked 41 times.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Essentially of the four QBs you named, they were sacked 1 in 5 times they were pressured and completed half their throws and if not for Brady, would have had more interceptions than touchdowns.

Pressure gets to every QB. That is why premium pass rushers are so grossly over-paid. What is more important is how they react when there is no pressure after being dumped on their ass a couple of times.

Basically all QBs will suck under pressure.

[Urrymonster]

The Golden Calf of Bristol will be a stud for Denver as well. I actually think The Golden Calf of Bristol & Newton will open things up for a bunch of athletic spread QB's in the NFL.

Why I like Newton over Gabbert:

1. Cam is a winner:

2. Cam's accuracy is better than advertised

3. Gabbert crumbles under pressure.

4. Gabbert has MAJOR deep accuracy issues.

5. Newton is one of a kind.

I don't mind people talking up Cam for the right reasons, but this list is just laughable.

1. The way you talk about this makes it seem like Gabbert had a losing record in college... Plus, Newton only played one season...

2. No, his accuracy isn't better than advertised. Do you know why? There is hardly any evidence of him throwing a lot of the throws he needs to. He can hit a streak ok, he can dump it off ok, find me some consistent accuracy in the middle of the field, on timing routes or anything between coverages. You can't because footage of those pretty much doesn't exist, or can be counted on one hand.

3. Explain to me what happens to Cam once the pocket collapses? That's right, he takes off and runs. What frustrates me is that he often loses the pass rush, then rather than pick out a pass he is only interested in running. At least Gabbert keeps his eyes down the field looking for a pass. You claim that the great QBs stand tall t deliver the pass? Cam does exactly the opposite, once things break down he is only interested in getting out with the ball. And his improvising that you love is completely improvisational running

4. Gabbert isn't great with the deep ball, but Cam is by no means leaps and bounds better. You see, Cam had the luxury of defences bringing down safeties and had linebackers spying him to prevent him from running, or stop him if he did. The deep ball should have been easy. You can't declare Cam has fantastic accuracy without considering what the defences are doing.

5. Young was supposed to be a one of a kind, not meaning to make comparisons but he really was. Before that Vick was. Now look at the last 5-6 drafts and look at the successful drafts. What kind of QBs are they? Are they athletic freaks, or are they QBs who can break down the game?

[TheRealDeal]

4. Gabbert isn't great with the deep ball, but Cam is by no means leaps and bounds better. You see, Cam had the luxury of defences bringing down safeties and had linebackers spying him to prevent him from running, or stop him if he did. The deep ball should have been easy. You can't declare Cam has fantastic accuracy without considering what the defences are doing.

You have to understand your audience.

They can't comprehend analysis or comments like that. They only understand stats and pure stats, not situation stats or even a season's worth of stats, just stats that favor Cam.

When you start talking about scheme and coverage, their little heads start to spin

[ncmonzta]

I don't mind people talking up Cam for the right reasons, but this list is just laughable.

2. No, his accuracy isn't better than advertised. Do you know why? There is hardly any evidence of him throwing a lot of the throws he needs to. He can hit a streak ok, he can dump it off ok, find me some consistent accuracy in the middle of the field, on timing routes or anything between coverages. You can't because footage of those pretty much doesn't exist, or can be counted on one hand.

3. Explain to me what happens to Cam once the pocket collapses? That's right, he takes off and runs. What frustrates me is that he often loses the pass rush, then rather than pick out a pass he is only interested in running. At least Gabbert keeps his eyes down the field looking for a pass. You claim that the great QBs stand tall t deliver the pass? Cam does exactly the opposite, once things break down he is only interested in getting out with the ball. And his improvising that you love is completely improvisational running

4. Gabbert isn't great with the deep ball, but Cam is by no means leaps and bounds better. You see, Cam had the luxury of defences bringing down safeties and had linebackers spying him to prevent him from running, or stop him if he did. The deep ball should have been easy. You can't declare Cam has fantastic accuracy without considering what the defences are doing.

2. see universal draft video in highlights of propects thread pg.2

3. " "

4. exactly. with cam newton you have to pick your poison. you going to either sit back and give him running yards and open up the run game for RBs or you're gonna have to bring defenders up and allow the reciever to get pass you. now if you watch those videos you will see this first hand.

Vick didn't have the passing ability Cam has coming out of college and Vince obviously doesn't have the mental toughness of Cam Newton.