Gabbert question

[Brooklyn Bully]

He doesn't have it.

[Liminy]

He doesn't have it.

But, I think he does have it. So that means it's really up to J.R. Hurney, and Rivera to decide that now isn't it.

[panthers55]

If his own teammates say he's a good leader along with his coaches and scouts, I think he could possibly be a good leader. yep

I am sure he is a good guy and everyone likes him. He is the defacto captain and leader by position. No doubt about it. And I am glad his coaches think he is a good leader. After they scholarshiped him and worked with him I can't imagine they would throw him under the bus..

But what about the fact that he folded under pressure and made poor decisions in big games like the Bowl game. The pressure just gets bigger in the pros not smaller. Obviously to be even considered for number 1, he has to be a leader and a good quarterback. Something just tells me that if we pick him we get the athletic version of Clausen not a franchise guy. Its probably me but he was uninspiring most of the time.

[antame]

There is so much 2nd hand info flying around here.. it's funny. Some people are re-stating rumors that were proved false. Firstly, his arm strength is exceptional.. right up there with Newton. I will repeat what Mike Mayock said about Gabbert's arm strength, "Way more than enough and can make every throw."

Truly, the only knocks on Gabbert are his poor Junior year (productivity wise), and most of all pocket presence. He feels pressure when there may be none at all, and he gets rid of the ball, sometimes making bad decisions while pressured.

His intangibles are off the charts.. whoever said his leadership and intangibles are poor is simply a Newton-nut hugger or plain ignorant. His accuracy is very good, better than any other QB prospect in this draft as far as accuracy goes. His throwing mechanics are near perfect, and his footwork is amazing for having played in a spread offense in college. Footwork is better than Matt Ryan's coming out of college.

I get all this info from Mike Mayock.. paraphrased of course.

I hear you and can't argue with most of that, but isn't "pocket presence" key in the NFL, and does it not also factor into the "intangible" category?

I don't claim to have the answer, but I hope our scouts and decision makers do, and I would rather they not draft a guy #1 overall with questions like that at large.

[antame]

I am sure he is a good guy and everyone likes him. He is the defacto captain and leader by position. No doubt about it. And I am glad his coaches think he is a good leader. After they scholarshiped him and worked with him I can't imagine they would throw him under the bus..

But what about the fact that he folded under pressure and made poor decisions in big games like the Bowl game. The pressure just gets bigger in the pros not smaller. Obviously to be even considered for number 1, he has to be a leader and a good quarterback. Something just tells me that if we pick him we get the athletic version of Clausen not a franchise guy. Its probably me but he was uninspiring most of the time.

His parents also have positive things to say about him.

[mav1234]

I hear you and can't argue with most of that, but isn't "pocket presence" key in the NFL, and does it not also factor into the "intangible" category?

I don't claim to have the answer, but I hope our scouts and decision makers do, and I would rather they not draft a guy #1 overall with questions like that at large.

unfortunately, all the QBs in this draft have huge questions... which is why we shouldn't draft them #1 overall.

I will say this, though: many QBs who come into the league have questions when it comes to feeling pressure off the edge and stepping up instead of rolling out.

[panthers55]

Uh, why do you say he's not a great leader? There's evidence directly to the contrary, including from a player who only played with him for like 5 days and liked him so much he went on record saying how much he liked "B," which he didn't need to do. And this nonsense about not being good under pressure situations is also BS. Gabbert lead his team back in the 4th quarter to a huge win against the #1 team in the nation. Sure, maybe it wasn't in the SEC, but he was damn good in that game.

Gabbert has lead like half a dozen 4th quarter come backs in the last two years. Most of them came in 2009, but he did have a couple this year, most notably against Oklahoma.

While Gabbert is not the coolest under pressure in the pocket, this is not to say he can not stand in there and make throws, nor is it to say that he can't handle pressure. There's a big difference between pocket awareness and lacking the intangibles of a leader in big game situations.

I am sure he is very likeable. And a leader given he is the quarterback and assumes that role on the team. How well he does it is a different thing.

As for being under pressure, the results are clear. Under pressure from 5 or more rushers he completed 32% of his passes. On third down he completed 44%. While we are making anedotes, how about the ill advised interception in the bowl game which allowed Iowa State to take the lead and win the game.He had a great day up to that point and with a 4 point lead and driving he throws a pick six which puts Iowa ahead. That isn't just poor leadership but poor judgement.

Gabbert had 16 TDs and 9 Ints, hardly the stuff of legends. His efficiency rating was 127 which was 8th among Big 12 quarterbacks.

He just reminds me of a big pretty package that looks great and holds great promise until you unwrap it and find that is just good not great.

[mav1234]

I am sure he is a good guy and everyone likes him. He is the defacto captain and leader by position. No doubt about it. And I am glad his coaches think he is a good leader. After they scholarshiped him and worked with him I can't imagine they would throw him under the bus..

But what about the fact that he folded under pressure and made poor decisions in big games like the Bowl game. The pressure just gets bigger in the pros not smaller. Obviously to be even considered for number 1, he has to be a leader and a good quarterback. Something just tells me that if we pick him we get the athletic version of Clausen not a franchise guy. Its probably me but he was uninspiring most of the time.

So what exactly do you call Cam Newton fumbling away the ball to Oregon? Did that not matter because he then disobeyed coaches orders and took the ball into the endzone late in the game?

No player is perfect. Certainly I don't fault Cam newton for not always securing the ball. Quarterbacks making plays have to take chances. Sometimes those chances don't pay off. Sometimes they do.

What is most telling is that after Gabbert's pick, on the final drive of the game, he was pushing his team down the field... until his receiver dropped a 4th down conversion pass. Of course, there's a bit of controversy here since it was initially ruled a catch and looked like a catch, but apparently the replay showed it hitting the ground.

Either way, Gabbert has lead his team back in big games before. He's taken over, drive the field, and put down tough opponents.

He may still have questions - and he does - but his problem is not that he is not a leader. Nor is it that he can't handle big games.

[panthers55]

unfortunately, all the QBs in this draft have huge questions... which is why we shouldn't draft them #1 overall.

I will say this, though: many QBs who come into the league have questions when it comes to feeling pressure off the edge and stepping up instead of rolling out.

Except for one who gets better under pressure and when blitzed goes from completing 66% overall to 76%. And consistently stepped up to run or make a throw downfield.

I wonder who that could be???????

[Liminy]

I feel like a Bud Light commercial. Here We Go!

[mav1234]

That isn't just poor leadership but poor judgement.

Are you really saying that throwing interceptions is poor leadership?

As to his 3rd down completion percentage, it's pretty bad. But I don't think that shows an inability as a leader, but may be more reflective of the offense he ran... and the fact that yes, when you throw defenders at him, he didn't do the best job dealing with them. I mean, when games are close he has a 64% completion percentage - even when down by up to 14 points. In watching him play, I don't get a sense of "can't handle big games" as much as "can't handle being chased around by a half dozen lineman," because that is what it felt like watching him play against some teams.

[panthers55]

So what exactly do you call Cam Newton fumbling away the ball to Oregon? Did that not matter because he then disobeyed coaches orders and took the ball into the endzone late in the game?

No player is perfect. Certainly I don't fault Cam newton for not always securing the ball. Quarterbacks making plays have to take chances. Sometimes those chances don't pay off. Sometimes they do.

What is most telling is that after Gabbert's pick, on the final drive of the game, he was pushing his team down the field... until his receiver dropped a 4th down conversion pass. Of course, there's a bit of controversy here since it was initially ruled a catch and looked like a catch, but apparently the replay showed it hitting the ground.

Either way, Gabbert has lead his team back in big games before. He's taken over, drive the field, and put down tough opponents.

He may still have questions - and he does - but his problem is not that he is not a leader. Nor is it that he can't handle big games.

What I call that is a winner who came back from adversity to win even when hurt. So a guy runs in the ball instead of take a knee late in the game when he sees the opportunity. Lets shoot him.

Where Newton got it done. Gabbert came up short like too many times after defense adjusted to the spread offense and shut them down. Sure he leads his team in big games and he has won some of them. After all you don't get consideration as a first rounder if you are a poor quarterback or have major character flaws- go ask Clausen about that. But yeah I don't think he comes up big in big games and that is one of the reasons that Newton looks so good and why people are willing to look past his mechanical woes.

Winners who get the job done one way or the other and find a way to win are rare. He has the it factor and Gabbert has it to a lesser degree. I just don't want another QB who plays not to lose instead of playing to win.

[Woodie]

Most of the talk of Gabberts poor pocket presence is greatly exaggerated by fans. Is it a concern, yeah. It'd definitely something he needs to work on, but it's definitely not as bad as some are making it out to be. What most fans need to realize is that while in Newtons one read offense, Cam was asked to take off if his first option wasn't there, while Gabbert tried to keep the play alive and buy time for his receivers to come open. And since his receiving corp and OL were not very good this year, that meant he got one look (which was often not open) and had to escape. One thing he does need to do a better job of is actually run upfield more when a lane opens up rather than running around trying to buy time.

As for his production, it is actually comparable to Josh Freeman's in college, and while Freeman was taken much later, knowing what we know now, do you think Tampa would be satisfied if they had picked him at #1 instead of 19? I doubt many would be complaining. Point is that you have to look beyond the numbers to truly evaluate a guy. Will Gabbert be as good as Freeman, or better? Who knows. But simply dismissing him because of his numbers is short sighted. You also have to realize that he lost his best receivers between his sophmore and junior years, which certainly hurt his production this past season. In fact, many pundits have talked about his poor receiver play as one reason Missouri rarely threw the ball deep. He also reportedly had many receiver drops, which greatly impacted his numbers. As for TD's, some of it was his receivers, but the team also didn't call many pass plays in the red zone. I remember watching a game where the announcers talked about how Mizzu tended to run it in the red zone and only occasionally used the pass.

One last point, by most accounts, one of Gabberts greatest strengths is his leadership abilities. He's a hard worker, and is someone that his teammates will lay it on the line for, and is highly respected by his coaches and teammates.

With all that said, am I sold on him at #1, not really. But then I'm not really sold on anyone at #1 (I'd be ok with Dareus there, but IMO, he's more a #3-5 prospect in most decent drafts). I do believe most of his issues are fixable, and given time and a good situation, he should be ready by next season, and ultimately be a very good QB in the NFL. And while I made the comparison to Freeman's stats, the reason Freeman has developed the way he has is because of his work ethic and the time he has invested in improving. And if Gabbert wants to follow Freeman's path, then he needs to show the same dedication.

[mav1234]

Except for one who gets better under pressure and when blitzed goes from completing 66% overall to 76%. And consistently stepped up to run or make a throw downfield.

I wonder who that could be???????

Oh I don't know, the same one who ran more times on third and longs than completed passes? Or the same one who ran more times when down by more than 7 than passed? Come on dude. If Newton was as good a passer as his stats indicate, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The fact is the mismatches his offense created enabled him to excel. Which is fine.

By the way, Cam Newton was less accurate than Blaine Gabbert when it came to vertical throws on third and 9 or greater. Neither of them were any good there, but that's just a very small part of why neither of them should go #1 overall.

Nobody doubts Newton can win in college. The question is if he can in the pros. Those same mismatches won't be nearly as extreme. He'll be forced to use his arm to bring his team back.