I'm Going to Laugh...

[Proudiddy]

#1 and #2 aren't reasons to draft Cam, they are reasons to draft any QB.

As for the third, you have to consider that even though he has arguably the greatest upside, he has the greatest risk as well. If you are drafting #1, you want a lot of upside but you don't want to take a huge risks because it can kill your franchise. Many view Gabbert as safer than Cam because he doesn't have as much of a transition to do as Cam does and has a pretty high ceiling himself.

Mallett has a bigger arm than Cam and makes every throw better than him. If your only concern is his mobility, why not draft him #1? Mobility is much less important in a QB than fundamentals and making all the throws.

I just don't see a lot of reasons to take Cam and not the other two QBs. This isn't the NBA draft, you don't draft based on potential. You need players with refined skills and right now Cam doesn't have that. Both Mallett and Gabbert, by most accounts, have better refined skills than Cam but Cam has "potential" and "athleticism" so people have fallen in love.

Yeah, the first two reasons were for any QB but, I gave them as a prelude to why I think Cam is the QB we should pick.

And you're right about the NBA draft vs. the NFL draft... The NBA is based so much on potential, and you don't want to fall into that trap with the NFL. But, I don't see how Gabbert has any advantage in coming in with any easier transition to being a pro than Cam does. Gabbert is coming out of a spread offense as well, so both haven't worked under center much. It may be a different variation of the spread, but it's still the spread, so they both have work to do coming from a system that isn't pro-friendly.

And to both of their cases, many of the recent top QB picks over the years have come from spreads, so I don't think that is a huge problem... If they are football-smart, they'll quickly adapt to any offense.

So, I don't really get how Gabbert has any advantage over Cam in that aspect. The only advantage Gabbert may have is in his accuracy as of right now, but even that is questionable. What kind of accuracy do we need?

From what I've heard, our new offense will involve the TE much more and will use a lot of seam routes as well as different deep routes to stretch the field. Cam has the bigger arm out of he and Gabbert, and from everything I've heard, he throws the deep ball the best out of all the available QBs (with only Mallett being competition). So, I think Cam fits the offense better.

And again, I'm not sure Cam is a practice player, because a lot of the throws he seemed to miss in workouts, he seemed to make in games.

And while yes, you don't want to draft purely on potential, IMO, the AMOUNT of potential Cam has is too much to pass up. If we're right, we're set for years to come and can just fill in the holes as we go elsewhere - like the Patriots and Steelers do.

I've heard it put like this - Cam has the highest ceiling, whereas a guy like Gabbert has a higher floor. What is the floor? I'd rather take a risk and get a potential superstar franchise QB that wins every year than take less of a risk and get a .500 starter who becomes a career backup after his rookie contract is up.

And if we miss on a QB, it'll be the same if we draft an average-dominant DT, we'll still struggle to win and Hurney will probably be out of a job anyway. And I guess who you prefer at QB depends on what you personally think will benefit our offense and our system most, so it is very subjective - but I'm not a victim of Cam hype... I was a Luck guy before he decided to not come out. I came to respect Cam's game more towards the end of the season before all of the hype.

[TheRealDeal]

And you're right about the NBA draft vs. the NFL draft... The NBA is based so much on potential, and you don't want to fall into that trap with the NFL. But, I don't see how Gabbert has any advantage in coming in with any easier transition to being a pro than Cam does. Gabbert is coming out of a spread offense as well, so both haven't worked under center much. It may be a different variation of the spread, but it's still the spread, so they both have work to do coming from a system that isn't pro-friendly.

And to both of their cases, many of the recent top QB picks over the years have come from spreads, so I don't think that is a huge problem... If they are football-smart, they'll quickly adapt to any offense.

So, I don't really get how Gabbert has any advantage over Cam in that aspect. The only advantage Gabbert may have is in his accuracy as of right now, but even that is questionable. What kind of accuracy do we need?

The advantage Gabbert has is very clear. After his workout, Rivera came away very impressed with the way he handled himself from under center citing how fluid he was and how he could tell that Gabbert had experience playing from under center. From Cam's under center workouts, more questions were asked and no previous questions were answered. The

[firstdayfan]

The reason you don't see Gabbert doing that is because his offense wasn't designed to do that.

How can you hold that against Gabbert when people claim the only reason Cam ran was by design? Who knows what Gabbert would show if he had almost as many running plays called as passing plays.

What you can compare between the two is their forty times, their shuttle times, etc and Gabbert out performed Cam.

As far as drops and motions etc, comments made about Gabbert and how he was fluid from under center and looked natural doing it and that you could tell he had done it before imply that he is further along than Cam and it really isn't close. People were very impressed with Gabbert under center and not so much Cam.

I didn't watch too many Missouri games...if somebody has please let us know but I'm pretty certain that they ran some of the same QB option runs as Auburn. Obviously they didn't run it AS much but they did run it and Gabbert didn't show the same burst, agility, or acceleration as Cam. He also doesn't have that same wiggle, the ability to break tackles and pick up extra yard. Maybe he didn't have the same chance to display those skills as Cam but I can only talk about what I've seen...everything else is speculation.

I also understand what was said about Gabbert's pro day but I watched both (until espn cut away from Gabbert's) and I thought from a footwork perspective cam was better. Newton also has a quick compact deliver and throws the ball with great velocity...I didn't see that with Gabbert although I will concede that Gabbert may be more accurate.

I just feel like Cam is a better fit for us...but I'd be happy either way. Don't get me wrong either...I would also be happy with Petersen, Dareus or Green. But I think if we stay at number 1 it should be Newton.

[csx]

... when we do take Newton on draft day and all the anti-Cam posters' heads explode because they had honestly convinced themselves it was all a smokescreen.

you probably need some hobbies

[TheRealDeal]

I also understand what was said about Gabbert's pro day but I watched both (until espn cut away from Gabbert's) and I thought from a footwork perspective cam was better. Newton also has a quick compact deliver and throws the ball with great velocity...I didn't see that with Gabbert although I will concede that Gabbert may be more accurate.

I just feel like Cam is a better fit for us...but I'd be happy either way. Don't get me wrong either...I would also be happy with Petersen, Dareus or Green. But I think if we stay at number 1 it should be Newton.

I promise you Gabbert's footwork is better. The only thing Cam has over Gabbert is athleticism (close) and potential. I would think most people would take footwork, accuracy, and polish over athleticism when selecting a QB #1 overall but that's just not the case with some fans. I just don't get it.

Again, I don't want either because I don't think either of them are good enough to go number 1 and neither would help our team in the near future and we are too close talent wise to waste time with projects but if we were dead set on taking a QB #1 overall, it should be Gabbert.

[Proudiddy]

The advantage Gabbert has is very clear. After his workout, Rivera came away very impressed with the way he handled himself from under center citing how fluid he was and how he could tell that Gabbert had experience playing from under center. From Cam's under center workouts, more questions were asked and no previous questions were answered.

It's not so much streaks as it is deeper routes such as digs and skinny posts as well as streaks but Cam struggles with those digs and skinny posts where he has to throw it into windows instead of just airing it out. He's been criticized for not being able to anticipate guys running into windows and becoming open but rather waiting until they are already open before throwing, which is deadly in the NFL.

After the statement that says Cam has a higher ceiling but the others have a higher floor, the rest is pure and unfounded speculation. Just because someone has a higher floor doesn't mean they can't also become a great superstar awesome franchise QB, it just means that there is less of a chance they are terrible. Cam might be the become the best player ever or he might be the worst pick ever. Gabbert is likely to be an average player at worst and a solid franchise QB at best.

Rivera was equally impressed with Cam's workouts from what has been reported. He spoke glowingly about both guys, as well as Mallett IIRC... So that doesn't tell me much. It's clear each guy brings a different set of skills to the table. I recently heard someone say some great football mind once said - if you aren't accurate, you better have a huge arm. And if you don't have a huge arm, you better be accurate. But you prefer to have both... Or something like that.

The way I look at it - if Cam gains accuracy, his upside can't be matched by Gabbert, because Gabbert can't get a stronger arm. And my only concern was if Cam would dedicate himself to being the best QB or player he could be - and if he does that, there is not doubt in my mind that he will be an excellent, top-tier, winning QB. With Gabbert, I'm not sure I can say the same. He reminds me a lot of Jimmy throwing-wise and similarities in their college careers, but is more athletic. I could live with Mallett, but his lack of mobility does bother me, and again, I'm not sure his impressive throwing in practices/workouts translates to on the field.

[Marguide]

Answer 1 question: How have you eliminated Gabbert from your thinking if you are operating under these criteria? How do you figure Cam's upside is higher than Gabbert's? Please be concrete.

Posted in another thread...the following are the reasons I prefer Cam:

1) I love the way he throws the ball in game situations. We aren't talking combine or pro day, just what he has done in-game

2) He has consistently shown an ability to lead his team from behind against good competition

3) He performs well under the pressure of a pass rush

4) He has prototypical size and arm strength

Gabbert fits number 4. He does not fit numbers 2 or 3 at all. As to number 1, while he does throw the ball well, sometimes he tends to have a bigger windup than necessary, which makes the ball come out a bit slower

Note that none of these address running ability or athleticism.

[firstdayfan]

I promise you Gabbert's footwork is better. The only thing Cam has over Gabbert is athleticism (close) and potential. I would think most people would take footwork, accuracy, and polish over athleticism when selecting a QB #1 overall but that's just not the case with some fans. I just don't get it.

Again, I don't want either because I don't think either of them are good enough to go number 1 and neither would help our team in the near future and we are too close talent wise to waste time with projects but if we were dead set on taking a QB #1 overall, it should be Gabbert.

I can't disagree with that...Gabbert doesn't have the baggage and is probably more polished but Cam did have much better production against the SEC. I know that's not a stiff argument but I feel like it's an important difference between the two.

I find it interesting that you mentioned we are so close from a talent perspective. Who do you want to play QB next year? I've been kinda coming at this thing from a sense that we probably wont be much better for at least a year or two BASED on our talent. Just curious what your goal is...be good next year or for the next decade?

[TheRealDeal]

Posted in another thread...the following are the reasons I prefer Cam:

1) I love the way he throws the ball in game situations. We aren't talking combine or pro day, just what he has done in-game

2) He has consistently shown an ability to lead his team from behind against good competition

3) He performs well under the pressure of a pass rush

4) He has prototypical size and arm strength

Gabbert fits number 4. He does not fit numbers 2 or 3 at all. As to number 1, while he does throw the ball well, sometimes he tends to have a bigger windup than necessary, which makes the ball come out a bit slower

Note that non of these address running ability or athleticism.

#3 is very debatable. It depends how you define performs well. If you want him scrambling right away, which will be much more difficult in the NFL since he isn't very quick, then you might have a point but if you are talking about standing tall in the pocket and delivering the necessary throws, you are completely wrong.

He tends to throw off his back foot when anyone gets near him and his accuracy gets even worse.

[MHS831]

This what makes people so irritated...this has got to be the most absolutely idiotic post I've ever freaking seen. Your basis of saying Cam won't be a good QB is because of his past issues and his 52% completion rate at the combine??? You sir are a ****** moron!!!!

People complain about Cam "huggers" and "haters" (which is about the gayest thing I've ever witnesses from grown-ass men) and yet we have to listen to the stupid, idiotic, and mindless nonsense that is contained in the post above. This is why people argue so much, bc you can't change anyones opinion (some of which are moronic and unfounded).

I love to debate but when people bring up the same stupid issues over and over there is no reason to even try anymore bc they are so far gone it's crazy. People who love Cam are going to love Cam, people who hate him will hate him...and then there are the sensible people who see a football player and nothing else. If there is anyone like that still on this board let's discuss this thing.

Let me explain it to you. I don't have pictures, but I will try to use words with no more than three syllables.

How is it idiotic to assume that the guy will complete passes at a higher percentage when he is in a real NFL game if he can't post a good percentage running against air? Only non-idiots think his success will improve in NFL games?

Do not call anyone idiot for having a different opinion than you do. Do not think others who do not agree with you are stupid. The fact is this: NOBODY KNOWS IF HE IS GOING TO SUCCEED OR NOT. Since you seem to know, that makes you the idiot. One apparently who lacks all class because he resorts to temper tantrums and name calling. That is childish.

Your blind bias has overcome you, and the fact that I can not find you has given you false courage. Now, I will forget about it because I imagine your collar is irritating the giant circumcision scar that must engulf your neck.

[TheRealDeal]

I find it interesting that you mentioned we are so close from a talent perspective. Who do you want to play QB next year? I've been kinda coming at this thing from a sense that we probably wont be much better for at least a year or two BASED on our talent. Just curious what your goal is...be good next year or for the next decade?

First of all drafting any QB this year doesn't guarantee we will be good for the next decade but it does guarantee we won't be good for the next 2-3 years.

I think we are very close talent wise. Our defense is 1-2 positions away from being elite. Hopefully our DEs will build off last year and be a force this year with the help of a DT. We need 1 CB if Marshall leaves because Captain cannot be a full time starter, he's just too small as evidenced in the first game of the year when they just threw it up and he had no chance. Our LBs are very solid and could be better this year when we are healthy. Add in a new, attacking philosophy from our HC and DC and I think we will see improvement with the addition of DT and CB.

Our offense still has Smith who was VERY productive when Moore was in the game. He was getting multiple catches and putting up big yards and a TD in almost every game with Moore. LaFell and Gettis also played very well when Moore was in the game. I think Gettis has a ton of potential and we only saw flashes of it this year. I really love having Smith and Gettis at 1 and 2. With the addition of Shockey and the commitment to using the TE as a pass catcher, it gives us the middle of the field threat we've been lacking. Everyone knows about our RBs and with the emergence of Goodson this year as a third down back, we have the best group of backs in the league and it's not really close. Even if DWill is gone, which I hope to God he isn't, Stewie has proven to play very well as the feature back and Goodson can be that change of pace back but I prefer him as the 3rd down, pass catching option. Our line is what will be most important and with a healthy Otah, Kalil, Gross, Wharton, and whoever we get to play RG, our line should be very good. It suffered last year without Otah because we had to shuffle so many pieces but if he's healthy they should be dominant again.

I see talent all over the field. With a new offensive scheme, that talent will get a chance to shine through.

Now comes to QB. My first choice? Palmer, Moore, Kaeprnick

My Second Choice? Volek/Vet, Moore, Clausen, Kaepernick (other late round rookie) and let the 4 of them battle it our for 3 roster spots AND the starting job.

I personally believe last year wasn't a good indication of Moore's ability and I feel he will prevail as the starter if he is given a shot with the team, which it looks like he will. I also don't think we've seen the reach of Moore's potential.

With that roster and lineup, I think we are a playoff contender year in and year out.

The reason I don't think we can waste time taking a project and trying to get them competent is Smitty, our Line, and our defense gets older each year and by the time the QB is ready to play at an appropriate level, the rest of the pieces might not be in place and I think we spend 2-3 more years getting the pieces together and by then our QB is in year 4-6 and won't have the lifespan left to make the investment worth it or even worse, on some other team's roster due to FA

[MHS831]

Posted in another thread...the following are the reasons I prefer Cam:

1) I love the way he throws the ball in game situations. We aren't talking combine or pro day, just what he has done in-game

2) He has consistently shown an ability to lead his team from behind against good competition

3) He performs well under the pressure of a pass rush

4) He has prototypical size and arm strength

Gabbert fits number 4. He does not fit numbers 2 or 3 at all. As to number 1, while he does throw the ball well, sometimes he tends to have a bigger windup than necessary, which makes the ball come out a bit slower

Note that non of these address running ability or athleticism.

These are good points and I appreciate facts instead of people stomping feet and throwing insults.

Allow me to counter:

1) There is not much of a correlation of success in college and the NFL, especially in systems where the QB was a runner first (Alex Smith is the most recent example that comes to mind). I do like the ball Cam throws, but most of the time, he was signaled in from the sideline the hot WR after they lined up. Not that it was necessary, but it was done. Having to read and check down will impact accuracy and timing a lot. He could be great, but when you underperform during the combine and workouts, there is no reason to assume he will become more accurate in games.

2) "Consistently" is a word he uses too. He has 14 college games under his belt. Many of the games Auburn won, many of the comeback victories, featured sick rushing numbers from Cam. He is such a great athlete, he carried the team on his back, not his arm.

3) He performs well under pressure of a pass rush. I have not seen him stay in the pocket much and go through a progression. Basically, if his man is not open, he bolts. However, the run threat lessens the intensity of the rush. Even when they shadowed him, he was awesome when breaking the pocket and scampering. It was the secret to his greatness as a college QB.

4) His size and strength is perfect for the NFL. I do not see him being injured often if he uses his brains and arm more than his legs.

The other side of the coin should also cause concern. His footwork, Accuracy, ability to read and audible vs. NFL defenses. Not to mention character concerns, but they are real. I do not see how anyone can say that Newton will be a great NFL QB. He is in the mold of so many failures.

Cam's success was due to his threat to run. Early in the NFL, he will resort to running when he can't process the D--non athletic QBs throw it away or run and slide. He won't. His athleticism has been his meal ticket his entire life. He will not be able to use the things in the NFL that made him successful in college or he will be injured.

Michael Vick is perhaps the best run-first college QB to have played in the NFL. He is successful now, but he was feared only for his running ability. Teams tried to keep him in the pocket and make him throw. Why? He was not accurate. He wanted to run. His highlights were usually running the ball. He throws a pretty football, but he had to reinvent himself. Even now, he was banged up by the end of the year. If the NFL goes 18 games, he will never last the season.

Take away Newton's running and make him sit in the pocket and out-think the defense. Make him throw accurate passes (he will have to do this in the Coryell offense Chud will run) to areas that are based on timing and precision. He is a huge gamble. Auburn is behind him.

Next week the Panthers are going to bring him in, along with Gabbert and Mallett, and test them on the playbooks they gave them last week. I think a lot will be determined at these meetings.

There is a lot to like about Cam. Just research the past and see how other running QBs with strong arms, how other heisman QBs, how other QBs with character concerns and mechanical issues have done in the NFL. Success like everyone on this thread describes is highly unlikely. Bust is much more probable.

[Marguide]

These are good points and I appreciate facts instead of people stomping feet and throwing insults.

Allow me to counter:

1) There is not much of a correlation of success in college and the NFL, especially in systems where the QB was a runner first (Alex Smith is the most recent example that comes to mind). I do like the ball Cam throws, but most of the time, he was signaled in from the sideline the hot WR after they lined up. Not that it was necessary, but it was done. Having to read and check down will impact accuracy and timing a lot. He could be great, but when you underperform during the combine and workouts, there is no reason to assume he will become more accurate in games.

2) "Consistently" is a word he uses too. He has 14 college games under his belt. Many of the games Auburn won, many of the comeback victories, featured sick rushing numbers from Cam. He is such a great athlete, he carried the team on his back, not his arm.

3) He performs well under pressure of a pass rush. I have not seen him stay in the pocket much and go through a progression. Basically, if his man is not open, he bolts. However, the run threat lessens the intensity of the rush. Even when they shadowed him, he was awesome when breaking the pocket and scampering. It was the secret to his greatness as a college QB.

4) His size and strength is perfect for the NFL. I do not see him being injured often if he uses his brains and arm more than his legs.

The other side of the coin should also cause concern. His footwork, Accuracy, ability to read and audible vs. NFL defenses. Not to mention character concerns, but they are real. I do not see how anyone can say that Newton will be a great NFL QB. He is in the mold of so many failures.

Cam's success was due to his threat to run. Early in the NFL, he will resort to running when he can't process the D--non athletic QBs throw it away or run and slide. He won't. His athleticism has been his meal ticket his entire life. He will not be able to use the things in the NFL that made him successful in college or he will be injured.

Michael Vick is perhaps the best run-first college QB to have played in the NFL. He is successful now, but he was feared only for his running ability. Teams tried to keep him in the pocket and make him throw. Why? He was not accurate. He wanted to run. His highlights were usually running the ball. He throws a pretty football, but he had to reinvent himself. Even now, he was banged up by the end of the year. If the NFL goes 18 games, he will never last the season.

Take away Newton's running and make him sit in the pocket and out-think the defense. Make him throw accurate passes (he will have to do this in the Coryell offense Chud will run) to areas that are based on timing and precision. He is a huge gamble. Auburn is behind him.

Next week the Panthers are going to bring him in, along with Gabbert and Mallett, and test them on the playbooks they gave them last week. I think a lot will be determined at these meetings.

There is a lot to like about Cam. Just research the past and see how other running QBs with strong arms, how other heisman QBs, how other QBs with character concerns and mechanical issues have done in the NFL. Success like everyone on this thread describes is highly unlikely. Bust is much more probable.

In my opinion, you are putting an undue emphasis on Cam's past behavior, whether it is regarding him running the offense he was asked to run, or whether it is regarding the character concerns. Those are areas we have differing opinions, and nothing said here will change that.

Certainly the Heisman and the NC do not tell us without a doubt that he will be good, but they are still nice to have on your resume.

His pro day was fine. Yes, he struggled a bit at the combine, but as coach after coach will tell you, the game tape is 90% of the evaluation.

Finally, he is nothing like Vick. Vick was lightening quick out of college, more in the mold of a Barry Sanders when he ran than either of the QB's in this discussion. He also could flick his wrists and throw the ball harder than just about anyone else I have seen, but with no idea where it was going. I do not see the comparisons to Vick at all.

[TheRealDeal]

Certainly the Heisman and the NC do not tell us without a doubt that he will be good, but they are still nice to have on your resume.

Actually, as history suggests, it might be a bad thing to have on your resume for the NFL. I don't need to rehash the history but there is a high correlation with heisman and/or NC winners and terribleness in the NFL, especially recently.

The problem is his game tape doesn't show anything that would lead you to believe he can make the transition to the NFL because it's full of stuff that he won't be doing in the NFL.

For him, the workouts were very important and he was largely unimpressive.