John Fox on Armanti Edwards....

[riddel]

Happy panther you suck as a fan anyway but let me help you. Under Seifert he made his first pro bowl. Instead of throwing him out their he was work in first on SP team then on Offense. By the time Fox was here he had a young wr in his 2nd year with some IN game exp. and success. Out of all the wr that were drafted on this team none of the good ones were developed or picked by Fox.

Really (with exception of Ricky P and Key) he couldn't find one in FA.

Maybe study your Panther history before typing.

Seifert was a complete washout who wanted nothing more than to "drink a Coors Light while sitting in the cheap seats at Candlestick (former SF stadium)", those were his words. Seifert collected a check and that was it. Smith was held back by Seifert and not allowed to break into the WR starting lineup.

You should really study your Panther history before typing.

[CRA]

Steve smith did play receiver before the nfl.

Under seifert, he wasn't even allowed to practice with the receivers. It wasn't until fox and company the he developed into the receiver that everyone fell in love with, and won the triple crown. Of course that development came from williamson, moose, and ricky p.

Once again, development of a player isn't by the head coach.

and AE was very clear the only help he got was from rookies and Duh-wayne before he got axed. Steve Smith had no time for him.....but has time to run laps w/ lineman in this spare time at practice.

[monstercat]

Hmmm...I believe Gross, Wharton, Kalil, Stewart and Williams developed pretty damn well under Fox, even though it was not his job to personally develop those individual players in the first place.

Some of you people are just bitter assholes, who will never give Fox credit for anything, even though he is the most successful coach in the Panthers short history.

Sure, it was time for Fox to go and give somebody else a chance to get it done, but there is no reason to be so damn bitter and take it so personally that Fox had a bad last year here. It's not like he planned to go 2-14 just to piss you all off.

What really amazes me here, is that so many of you folks that hate John Fox with a passion for being too conservative, will argue until you're blue in the face that going with some veteran scrub at QB is the best way to go, because it's safer (aka more conservative) than drafting a QB.:rolleyes:

[riddel]

Hmmm...I believe Gross, Wharton, Kalil, Stewart and Williams developed pretty damn well under Fox, even though it was not his job to personally develop those individual players in the first place.

Some of you people are just bitter assholes, who will never give Fox credit for anything, even though he is the most successful coach in the Panthers short history.

Sure, it was time for Fox to go and give somebody else a chance to get it done, but there is no reason to be so damn bitter and take it so personally that Fox had a bad last year here. It's not like he planned to go 2-14 just to piss you all off.

What really amazes me here, is that so many of you folks that hate John Fox with a passion for being too conservative, will argue until you're blue in the face that going with some veteran scrub at QB is the best way to go, because it's safer (aka more conservative) than drafting a QB.:rolleyes:

You left off Peppers and several really decent LBs (Beason, Witherspoon, Morgan, Davis)

Exactly. Fox would have NEVER drafted a QB this year and he showed that when he took the safe pick, Julius Peppers, over Harrington. I agree with the Peppers pick and I also agree that reaching for a QB at #1 is a mistake. Fox knew that his legacy would be defined by the #2 pick and he made the RIGHT choice. Somebody argue that point, PLEASE.

[CRA]

You left off Peppers and several really decent LBs (Beason, Witherspoon, Morgan, Davis)

Exactly. Fox would have NEVER drafted a QB this year and he showed that when he took the safe pick, Julius Peppers, over Harrington. I agree with the Peppers pick and I also agree that reaching for a QB at #1 is a mistake. Fox knew that his legacy would be defined by the #2 pick and he made the RIGHT choice. Somebody argue that point, PLEASE.

Fox knows D. Fox can also develop a ground attack.

It is the forward pass and all the parts/coaching that go into that he struggles with. Every player named is defensive or geared toward the run.

There is one player in the Fox era Fox brought in that aided the passing game. His system was probably more flawed than the talent.

[monstercat]

I left out the defensive guys, because everbody is claiming that Fox never developed an offensive player.

The fact is, some of those guys, like Shelton and Jarrett, were just shitty draft picks, and there are many people to blame for that, with Marty Hurney being the main culprit. It's pretty clear to me that he is the one who has the final say in the draft. I just hope that's about to change with Rivera, but I'm not at all convinced that's the case.

Personally, I wanted the Panthers to hire Rob Ryan, because I know he's a strong personality who will fight to draft the players he wants. He is also the exact opposite of John Fox, personality wise. It makes me sick to my stomach that he is a Cowboy now, because he will have their defense kicking ass right off the bat.

[monstercat]

Fox knows D. Fox can also develop a ground attack.

It is the forward pass and all the parts/coaching that go into that he struggles with. Every player named is defensive or geared toward the run.

There is one player in the Fox era Fox brought in that aided the passing game. His system was probably more flawed than the talent.

Name one QB or WR that the Panthers drafted during the Fox era, who failed here, but went on to have success with another team.

It was not the system or the coaching...it was the talent level that wasn't up to snuff, and that's on the scouting department and the GM just as much, if not more, than the HC. Hell, Dan Henning had success before, during, and after his time with the Panthers.

[riddel]

Fox knows D. Fox can also develop a ground attack.

It is the forward pass and all the parts/coaching that go into that he struggles with. Every player named is defensive or geared toward the run.

There is one player in the Fox era Fox brought in that aided the passing game. His system was probably more flawed than the talent.

I hated Henning's offense, but it won games. Davidson was the poor pickup in my opinion. Davidson is the reason we have Clausen, Weiss's boy, all from the same offensive mold. Yeah, I know that the running game flurished under Davidson, but Delhomme wasn't a Davidson style QB, he was a Henning style guy.

[riddel]

Name one QB or WR that the Panthers drafted during the Fox era, who failed here, but went on to have success with another team.

It was not the system or the coaching...it was the talent level that wasn't up to snuff, and that's on the scouting department and the GM just as much, if not more, than the HC. Hell, Dan Henning had success before, during, and after his time with the Panthers.

Yep. If the picks were good picks with poor coaches, then the players would be killing it somewhere else right now.

[CRA]

Name one QB or WR that the Panthers drafted during the Fox era, who failed here, but went on to have success with another team.

It was not the system or the coaching...it was the talent level that wasn't up to snuff, and that's on the scouting department and the GM just as much, if not more, than the HC. Hell, Dan Henning had success before, during, and after his time with the Panthers.

Name one coach that has been somewhere for 9 seasons and failed to bring in and have some legit success from a QB, WR, TE? Too long for it too be only bad luck of the scouting department (that hits on every other aspect).

[Darth Bobo]

It is true that the DRAFT PICK doesn't look like a good deal for the money. Fox did not lie.

My heart truly wishes that Armanti Edwards will exceed all expectations and prove all of our doubts/fears wrong. Would be inspiring for Carolina proper and the Panthers and App State fans. All of us.

Like Cam Newton, Armanti Edwards has an upside that is off the charts.

[monstercat]

Name one coach that has been somewhere for 9 seasons and failed to bring in and have some legit success from a QB, WR, TE? Too long for it too be only bad luck of the scouting department (that hits on every other aspect).

Well I don't know about one single coach, but there are plenty of teams who have gone ten or more years without a franchise QB. Why do you think I'm so against waiting and hoping that we can draft Luck next year or the next Luck the year after...and so on.

Usually there is a lot of turnover in the coaching staff when that happens though, because most coaches can't win withoutout that QB. Fox did win without one. In fact, it wasn't his QB's fault that he didn't get a Superbowl ring in 03.

[riddel]

Name one coach that has been somewhere for 9 seasons and failed to bring in and have some legit success from a QB, WR, TE? Too long for it too be only bad luck of the scouting department (that hits on every other aspect).

Delhomme was here for 8 of those years and only 1 of those 8 years was Delhomme's head called for. Why should Fox have to produce another QB, when he had a 1 time Probowl/ 1 time Superbowl/ 2 time NFC Championship?

King was a servicable TE. TE was never emphasized in the Panther's offense, blame Davidson.

As far as I'm concerned, Steve Smith developed under Fox. Seifert wouldn't even let him crack the starting lineup.

[riddel]

I swear arguing with some of you is like arguing with an alzheimer's patient.

Ratards.