Jim Harbaugh on Cam Newton

[TheRealDeal]

Designed runs have nothing to do with if you are a pocket passer or not on pass plays. They are two separate categories.

You can't penalize a guy for being a running QB when his runs are by design. Especially when that QB passes for 3,000 yards and 30tds on his passing plays. You guys call him a run first QB but ignore his "film" when he performs a passing play.

They used the last 6 games bc at that point the other teams had ample film to game plan against him and by that point he likely was more familiar with the playbook he only had one year to completely learn.

Therefore, it was determined by the analysts that the last 6 games was a better representation of what Cam was doing than games where he was still learning and being studied by opposing coaches.

Plus it wasn't 6 random games they were 6 in succession at the end of the season for a reason.

I get all that but to be fair the types of passes they throw and the whole premise of the offenses is different. While Cam did put up big numbers passing, you have to look at how those yards came about (how much was YAC, blown coverage, good throws, etc) and how much his running played a role (through play action, stacking box, etc) in those numbers.

While most of Cam's passing yards were from the pocket I'm assuming because the article doesn't specify but only notes the % of pass plays where they ran, his overall production is pretty split. For Rodgers, it's very heavily favoring throwing the football, mostly from in the pocket.

I don't think it's fair to Cam and I don't think it's fair to Aaron to say the two are similar QBs because they are clearly not. When you guys make comparisons like that, it chips away at your credibility and makes everyone question your common sense.

[TheRealDeal]

Anyway... when Aaron has to scramble and make a play out of the pocket he can and so can Big Ben and Cam Newton if you don't have that ability you will struggle. Pressure those statues and the game is in the bag.

Have you ever thought about jogging on the freeway?

[teeray]

I get all that but to be fair the types of passes they throw and the whole premise of the offenses is different. While Cam did put up big numbers passing, you have to look at how those yards came about (how much was YAC, blown coverage, good throws, etc) and how much his running played a role (through play action, stacking box, etc) in those numbers.

While most of Cam's passing yards were from the pocket I'm assuming because the article doesn't specify but only notes the % of pass plays where they ran, his overall production is pretty split. For Rodgers, it's very heavily favoring throwing the football, mostly from in the pocket.

I don't think it's fair to Cam and I don't think it's fair to Aaron to say the two are similar QBs because they are clearly not. When you guys make comparisons like that, it chips away at your credibility and makes everyone question your common sense.

TRD it isn't about stats and production. It is about claiming that Cam bailed on the pocket or not. Or if he bailed on passing plays more than Aaron did. This is about the ability to stay in the pocket. How would you describe a pocket passer in contrast to a scrambler. If you are claiming that Aaron Rodgers is a pocket passer and not a scrambler because because he threw more than Cam when he dropped back, well that would either be false or you would have to say Aaron is a scrambler or Cam is a pocket passer.

You could say that Cam was a more effective runner when he did run or that Aaron Rodgers had more passing yards than Cam. But those statistics aren't relevant.

Or are they now?? You seem to change your mind on this.

It is about scrambling to make plays like both did effectively. I don't care about how many yards he rushed for after he ran on a pass play. That serves no purpose for this discussion.

All I care about was if he was willing to stay in the pocket on passing plays at the same rate as Aaron Rodgers and he was.

[ncmonzta]

Have you ever thought about jogging on the freeway?

More gifs at GIFanatics.com

[TheRealDeal]

All I care about was if he was willing to stay in the pocket on passing plays at the same rate as Aaron Rodgers and he was.

The crazy thing is you are looking to define Cameron Newton by one obscure statistic that isn't even an accurate representation of his game play.

What about pass plays that he tried to run and got tackled behind the line of scrimmage? How did the defense impact this? What was the result of those plays? There are so many variables that to say he is the same as Aaron Rodgers is downright disrespectful.

Then you have to take into consideration the offenses they played in. Sure they were both in shotgun a lot and with receivers wide but what were most of the play designs? Was he really "in the pocket" on those catch and throw swings to his slot receivers which made up a huge portion of his pass plays?

There is so much to consider and when you look at the big picture, the conclusion you should draw is that right now they are nothing alike but if Cam wants to be successful in the NFL, he should strive to make his game similar to Aaron Rodgers.

[Peppers90 NC]

The crazy thing is you are looking to define Cameron Newton by one obscure statistic that isn't even an accurate representation of his game play.

What about pass plays that he tried to run and got tackled behind the line of scrimmage? How did the defense impact this? What was the result of those plays? There are so many variables that to say he is the same as Aaron Rodgers is downright disrespectful.

Then you have to take into consideration the offenses they played in. Sure they were both in shotgun a lot and with receivers wide but what were most of the play designs? Was he really "in the pocket" on those catch and throw swings to his slot receivers which made up a huge portion of his pass plays?

There is so much to consider and when you look at the big picture, the conclusion you should draw is that right now they are nothing alike but if Cam wants to be successful in the NFL, he should strive to make his game similar to Aaron Rodgers.

Ding-Ding *Winner*, now lets stop the comparison between these two guys please. It makes our fanbase look dumb and strips away the little integrity this site may have left.

[teeray]

The crazy thing is you are looking to define Cameron Newton by one obscure statistic that isn't even an accurate representation of his game play.

What about pass plays that he tried to run and got tackled behind the line of scrimmage? How did the defense impact this? What was the result of those plays? There are so many variables that to say he is the same as Aaron Rodgers is downright disrespectful.

Then you have to take into consideration the offenses they played in. Sure they were both in shotgun a lot and with receivers wide but what were most of the play designs? Was he really "in the pocket" on those catch and throw swings to his slot receivers which made up a huge portion of his pass plays?

There is so much to consider and when you look at the big picture, the conclusion you should draw is that right now they are nothing alike but if Cam wants to be successful in the NFL, he should strive to make his game similar to Aaron Rodgers.

maybe this will help

Of course, there’s more than that. Cynics may reply that a ‘run-first’ guy may still ultimately pass the ball but he is far too quick to give up on the pocket and begin scrambling around to try and make something happened. This would naturally mean that a large percentage of Newton’s throws came while scrambling around and making something happen. However, according to our research, only about 1 in 5 of Newton’s pass attempts during those final six games came under these conditions. Again according to Pro Football Focus, Aaron Rodgers threw a little over 1 in 5 of his pass attempts while ‘Under Pressure

’.

and

Transition

There are, however, a number of myths floating around out there about what Newton did at Auburn versus what he will do in the NFL. A common criticism we see levied at Newton is that at Auburn he threw nothing but little screen passes and rollouts, and other passes that don’t translate at the next level. We take issue with this statement on two fronts. First, according to our research over the final six games of Newton’s, only about 1 in 4 of his pass attempts were screen passes or designed roll-outs. That is not an overly significant number of screens or roll-outs. The second issue is the notion that those passes do not translate at the next level. Some of those bubble screens require a good arm, as going from center of the hashes to the sideline requires you to throw the ball between 20 and 25 yards through the air, and in order for those plays to be effective the ball has to get there with velocity. All of those passes require pinpoint accuracy in order to achieve the desired run-after-catch results. Any delay due to an inaccurate ball results in very little gain, or perhaps even a loss on the play.

At the height of the Patriots success, Tom Brady made 6 or 7 of these throws a game. In the NFL, Cam will not quite throw those passes on 1 in 4 attempts, but he will throw them a significant amount, as the quick passing game and screen game constitutes a significant percentage of passes in today’s NFL. As for Newton’s lack of experience dropping back from under Center, we would note that in today’s rapidly changing NFL schemes, passers are taking more snaps than ever out of the shotgun. According to studies, most of today’s NFL quarterbacks took between 50 and 65% of their pass attempts out of the shotgun in 2010. Peyton Manning took 76% of his passes out of the gun.

Actual facts are a bitch to get around :)

[teeray]

Ding-Ding *Winner*, now lets stop the comparison between these two guys please. It makes our fanbase look dumb and strips away the little integrity this site may have left.

Actual statistical analysis backs me up. Thanx tho.

[TheRealDeal]

There is so much fluff and so many ambiguous words in those paragraphs it almost makes it unreadable.

I get it though, people should have no worries about Cam because he basically played like a mixture of Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady in college.

Sign me up

[TheRealDeal]

Actual statistical analysis backs me up. Thanx tho.

You trying to call whatever they put together statistical analysis is comedy.

They couldn't have massaged those stats and given any more opinion and passed it off as fact if they tried.

[TheRealDeal]

That "article" was more opinion based that most of the posts on this huddle. It just so happens that they manipulated the statistics and took such a small sample size that of course they felt was accurate because it articulated their point and now you use it as truth.

Someone mentioned the little credibility left on this site? It will be gone until after the draft when only the real fans are left.

[teeray]

You trying to call whatever they put together statistical analysis is comedy.

They couldn't have massaged those stats and given any more opinion and passed it off as fact if they tried.

I isn't stats in the sense of passing yards and rushing yards.

It was disproving myths with statistical fact. That is a difference. you can't massage how many times a guy scrambled, or ran on a passing play, or threw screen passes. Those are facts. you can massage YPA completion percentage, etc. These are facts. Big difference.

If anything I misspoke to call it analysis.

:dupe:

[MattB]

I'm a Cam fan but there is absolutely no comparison between him and Aaron Rodgers ffs. He's a mix of Big Ben and Michael Vick if you want to use an NFL comparison.

[ncmonzta]

Have you ever thought about jogging on the freeway?