Under NO circumstances should the Panthers tag Gross

[Highlandfire]

I still say work out whatever friggin language issues are being had with Gross' contract and franchise peppers at all costs.

[Fox007]

Also stipulations are a big part of contract talk, signing bonuses, too much back loaded, non trade clauses and so forth. there might be something in the contract that the panthers offered that he doesn't like.

I know that is a big part of my side too.....

Those 'small' stipulations can halt contracts, and in the end make them never happen.

So like I said if he doesn't like them now, or last year, why would he like them next year?

Still though that doesn't mean the offer isn't fair, and I still put this on him over the organization.

[blpanther]

Offer Gross a GOOD contract and burn the midnight oil getting the details worked out. If Gross wants to be a Panther and we offer a GOOD contract, then there should be nothing in the way of getting it worked out. It is mutually beneficial to tag Pepp and get high draft picks. After all, if Gross wants to be a Panther, then he'll want the team to get those draft picks and improve.

If a deal doesn't get worked out by Thursday and Gross starts visiting other teams, then he probably wanted to test free agency anyways. Either way, tag Pepp and get some value.

[pantherclaw]

yeah, ya want to keep the guy who doesn't want to be here, all to get something in value for him, just to turn around and have to waste it on replacing Gross.

I do agree that in a best case scenario, that Gross should get signed to a long term deal before the deadline, but people, we don't live in a perfect world.

[blpanther]

Yes, I do want value for Pepp. If Gross wants to be here, then the deal should get done. If he wants to test FA, then we'll be in this predicament every year until he gets his wish. Also, we can still sign him if he becomes a free agent.

In regards to using the pick for Peppers to replace Gross, I don't see that happening. Wharton could move to LT. Hangman, Vincent and Bridges are three options for guards. Besides, there's good value at the guard position in the second or third round of the draft.

[mmmbeans]

I wish the server hadn't been wiped so we could bring back some of the old Wharton at LT threads.

[carpanfan96]

Yes, I do want value for Pepp. If Gross wants to be here, then the deal should get done. If he wants to test FA, then we'll be in this predicament every year until he gets his wish. Also, we can still sign him if he becomes a free agent.

In regards to using the pick for Peppers to replace Gross, I don't see that happening. Wharton could move to LT. Hangman, Vincent and Bridges are three options for guards. Besides, there's good value at the guard position in the second or third round of the draft.

I'm sorry but I don't want Warton at LT again, he performed awesome last year at LG. That is were he needs to stay.

[pantherclaw]

In regards to using the pick for Peppers to replace Gross, I don't see that happening. Wharton could move to LT. Hangman, Vincent and Bridges are three options for guards. Besides, there's good value at the guard position in the second or third round of the draft.

Wharton could move to LT, but then we'd be back to having TWO weak guards. Not saying that the guys there can't be decent. But decent isn't what we want. Why are people willing to let the oline go backwards after it taking so many years to get a good o-line? The chances of Vincent having another good year isn't good, specially with him having a groin injury.

I understand your desires, but this isn't Madden, and it's not going to play out like you think.

[Fox007]

yeah, ya want to keep the guy who doesn't want to be here, all to get something in value for him, just to turn around and have to waste it on replacing Gross.

I do agree that in a best case scenario, that Gross should get signed to a long term deal before the deadline, but people, we don't live in a perfect world.

Our O-line is stronger/deeper than our D-line.

We wouldn't spend the picks we get for Peppers to replace Gross, we would replace Peppers with the picks we get.

If Gross doesn't sign, keeping him includes tagging him, so you are in the same boat next year. Why would they keep trying to sign a guy 3 years running? Why delay the inevitable? Especially when you can be grooming your future.

Neither one of these guys is replaceable, and I don't think anyone is kidding themselves on thinking we will draft someone equal to either of these guys.

But tagging a player who for all we know will leave anyway after next year, instead of getting some good picks would be a hideous move.

Franchising Gross is basically patching a hole, not fixing it.

[carpanfan96]

Our O-line is stronger/deeper than our D-line.

We wouldn't spend the picks we get for Peppers to replace Gross, we would replace Peppers with the picks we get.

If Gross doesn't sign, keeping him includes tagging him, so you are in the same boat next year. Why would they keep trying to sign a guy 3 years running? Why delay the inevitable? Especially when you can be grooming your future.

Neither one of these guys is replaceable, and I don't think anyone is kidding themselves on thinking we will draft someone equal to either of these guys.

But tagging a player who for all we know will leave anyway after next year, instead of getting some good picks would be a hideous move.

Franchising Gross is basically patching a hole, not fixing it.

Tagging gross, gives us extra time to get a deal done.(forget last years deal, its a completely new deal worth a whole lot more money now, All-pro LT >>>> good RT) If the panthers can't get a deal done with him by Thursday, they can Tag him and keep working on the deal. Tagging peppers just gets us draft picks that could end up being good players. Not worth losing two pro bowlers for a couple of draft picks, giving the option you keep the one who wants to be here not the one who doesn't and is only going to equal draft picks.

[Fox007]

Tagging gross, gives us extra time to get a deal done.(forget last years deal, its a completely new deal worth a whole lot more money now, All-pro LT >>>> good RT) If the panthers can't get a deal done with him by Thursday, they can Tag him and keep working on the deal. Tagging peppers just gets us draft picks that could end up being good players. Not worth losing two pro bowlers for a couple of draft picks, giving the option you keep the one who wants to be here not the one who doesn't and is only going to equal draft picks.

On the same token, if signing the 'good RT' was hard, then how well do you expect signing the all-pro LT to go. So I can't really forget last years deal now can I, seeing as how this years deal is higher/better.(and yet he isn't signed)

So you are willing to just drop it all and give Gross everything he wants, just because he was voted all-pro for one year?

They should do their best to sign Gross, but not do everything. He has a say in the matter too ya know, you guys are being too fooled by his little statement.

See that whole thing about tagging the guy 'who wants to be here' is fan talk, not business talk. They are not thinking about that one bit.

They said it took three years of Jenkins saying he wanted out before they traded him.(they have shown that they will keep you regardless of what you say)

[MadHatter]

yeah, ya want to keep the guy who doesn't want to be here, all to get something in value for him, just to turn around and have to waste it on replacing Gross.

I do agree that in a best case scenario, that Gross should get signed to a long term deal before the deadline, but people, we don't live in a perfect world.

Everyone is assuming we can sign Gross to a long-term deal later if we franchise him again now. Why would you think that? We have been trying to get something done for over a year....and are too far apart.

Peppers walks....nothing in return.

Tag Gross...pay him ungodly money this season under the tag, and be in the same boat next year.

This is not a good scenario for the Panthers.

[top dawg]

Peppers walks....nothing in return.

Tag Gross...pay him ungodly money this season under the tag, and be in the same boat next year.

This is not a good scenario for the Panthers.

In other words, we're inevitably gonna get screwed. Get out the Vaseline, boys n girls!

[SCP]

The Schwartz = Pro Bowler for the next 18 seasons