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What is this UPSIDE that makes Cam better than Gabbert?

MHS831

By MHS831,
in Carolina Panthers

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micnificent28 Mentor

micnificent28

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Don't know when Gabbert became a loser... pretty sure his record is around 23-5 or something... and he beat a number 1 ranked team... Saying Gabbert isn't a winner cause he didn't have the college stats that Cam did is ridiculous.

Cam is the sexier pick.. that's why he's regarded to have more upside.

Try 18 and 7 for wins and losses.which isn't much better than his touchdown interception ratio. I bet the majority of you didn't even know who gabbert was before the end of the season. Why? because he hasn't done anything to warrant all of this attention.:confused:

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ncbobcat Newbie

ncbobcat

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The upside is Newton is still raw, the bad side is Newton is still raw. What does that mean? We (some fans, not me) want to use a a #1 overall pick on a raw product that has an upside which may or may not be realized.

Best case scenario: Newton pans out qiuckly in say 2-3 years.

Worst case scenario: Newton flops and the Panthers are set back a few more years by taking a QB based off athletic ability instead of quarterbacking ability.

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rippadonn Grand Master

rippadonn

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The upside is Newton is still raw, the bad side is Newton is still raw. What does that mean? We (some fans, not me) want to use a a #1 overall pick on a raw product that has an upside which may or may not be realized.

Best case scenario: Newton pans out qiuckly in say 2-3 years.

Worst case scenario: Newton flops and the Panthers are set back a few more years by taking a QB based off athletic ability instead of quarterbacking ability.

He can really throw the ball. His biggest knock right now is footwork. Read this:

http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/2011/03/reeves-panthers-should-draft-cam.html

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Bj-Monster23 Newbie

Bj-Monster23

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So college success = pro success? THe NCAA investigation was his doing. Noticed you didn't mention the fact that Gabbert is more intelligent, has a quicker release, better accuracy, and played behind a much worse OL and had a horrible D.

If college was all that mattered, there would be no pro days. Since the experts do not know how to measure a QBs success by watching college film, they interview, conduct workouts, etc. What are the most important characteristics of a QB in the NFL:

1. Leadership and Intelligence--I give this one to Gabbert. Yeah, he doesn't attract the cameras like Cam did, but he played for Missouri.

2. Accuracy and quick release--This is why success in the NFL has nothing to do with success in college. NFL DBs will eat you alive if you give throws away and miss the target. 52% (combine) vs. no rush, no dbs, and no wind/weather concerns?

3. Character and work ethic--Gabbert. Cam has work ethic. He has been coached up to get him a contract and to answer the obvious questions coming his way, but the scouts raved about Gabbert's interviews and his football knowledge.

So a year of college football success and a strong arm give Cam the highest upside when so many other flaws are characteristic of the league's biggest busts?

And even though the experts fail much of the time, you are certain that Cam has a better NFL future ahead of him than Gabbert? Certain? If so, you are a closed-mined hugger and may God have mercy on your soul if you use the same formula to make more significant decisions in your life.

Wow so what you are saying is that Gabbert is going to be a better QB because he is smarter. If you really think that then you know nothing about football at all. Just because Gabbert had a better wonderlic dont mean a hill of beans. By him having a 42 is it going to help him make a deep throw down the field, will it help him avoid not getting tackle. Now im not saying you dont have to be smart playing the position. But you make it feel that since gabbert made higher then newton he is going to be a better QB. Witch is not true. And if the stuff in college didnt mean anything as you say this is why success in the NFL has nothing to do with success in college. If it was like that then why go to college to play it must mean something. You only going to be playing with the same people just in different places.

But like i said once i will say it again. Some people just dont like the guy. But no matter if its newton or gabbert.Im willing to give them a chance.Unlike some people.

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micnificent28 Mentor

micnificent28

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The 42 was a fake.

Updating a previous item, Missouri QB Blaine Gabbert scored a 31 -- not a 42 -- on the Combine Wonderlic exam.

It's not nearly as impressive as Gabbert's initial score, which he recorded at the Athletes' Performance Institute while prepping for the Scouting Combine

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monstercat Newbie

monstercat

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I find it funny how people say Cam is just a guy with potential and nothing more. Well, then what does that make Blaine Gabbert? We SAW Cam get it done in college, that's not the potential to getting it done that's actually getting it done. What did we see in Blaine Gabbert in college? Essentially NOTHING. If you're talking about drafting a player because of their potential, you better be talking about Gabbert because right now, his only positives are numbers. Height, weight, arm strength, etc. He's never gotten it done on the field.

This is my big thing too. I saw Newton make big plays right and left. Maybe he didn't always look perfect doing it, but it got done. I don't care if a guy has perfect footwork as much as I care that he makes plays with the game on the line, and Newton did that every single time. Auburn was nothing without Cam Newton, but I believe you could have put in the back up at Mizzouri, and it wouldn't have made that big of a difference.

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MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

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Ask yourself a couple of questions...could Gabbert have beaten Alabama or Oregon? Could Auburn have beaten Alabama and Oregon without Cam Newton?

First of all, Alabama and Oregon are not in the NFL.

Secondly, who were the other 10 guys wearing the same color uniforms as Cam?

Finally, are you putting Gabbert behind the Auburn offense? Is this about the NFL or the NCAA?

If you want to use Cam's history to determine future success, use all of it.

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Brooklyn Bully Newbie

Brooklyn Bully

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Gabbert's Upside:

  • Athleticism perfect size for QB and his 40 time was nearly identical to Cam Newton's
  • Intelligence Wonderlic score twice that of Newton- 42 and he repotedly knows the pro game very well
  • Leadership Reported to have outperformed the other QBs during combine interviews; Easier to follow without the red flags concerning character and inflated self-image
  • Mechanics: Better footwork, quicker delivery than other prospects, according to Brandt and other scouts at pro day.
  • Accuracy: Compared to Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez and Ryan. Threw 2 bad balls at pro day with WRs he was not familiar with.

All things being equal (it's impossible to say if they are or not from a fan's eyes), I think Cam is more athletic. That gives him the upside. But let's look at your points about Gabbert...

1. Cam has the height as well. Are you saying Cam is too heavy? Gabbert scores no advantage with this point.

2. As others have mentioned, you have the wrong score. And since when does a one-time Wonderlic score translate to a top tier contender? If it did, we may as well draft the QB from Harvard or MIT every year.

3. Cam has leadership as well. You're going off one-time interviews and translating that to on the field leadership capabilities. That won't work. You need to seek out people who knew the two QBs the entire year and see how well they performed as leaders in games and in the locker room.

4. If you want to call this an advantage, fine. But I'm sure Gabbert's one-time display of "non-game mechanics" bested many a starting QB in the league right now on their pro-day...but didn't best a few bench warmers' pro-day success in the NFL right now. Again, people need to base it off his entire career in college, not a pro-day. If they say Gabbert is lightyears above the rest from all his Missou games...then he sounds like a sure thing. Are they saying that? But you already question if college success = NFL success.

5. Again, if a one-time display of non-game talent means success in the NFL, well hell...let's pick the kid. Otherwise, sans Cam's media influenced negativity, I say they are neck and neck with Cam being more athletic. That's why I think he has the edge. I don't want us to draft him though. Or Gabbert for that matter.

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Kurb Newbie

Kurb

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First of all, I seek a trade down. No labels.

But despite all of the reasons to see Cam Newton's downside as a threat to the upside...:

  • Attitude (icon, a few comments on NFL Network about teammates at Auburn are now saying he was selfish and self-promoting).
  • Character (Stolen computer, accusations involving stealing from teammates' lockers, 4 counts of academic fraud, NCAA investigation)
  • Mechanics (footwork, throwing motion, spread offense background)
  • Accuracy (Combine-52%, pro day below average with familiar WRs)

    But the Cam supporters are now arguing that Cam's leadership and UPSIDE are better than Gabbert's. REALLY???

    Gabbert's Upside:

    • Athleticism perfect size for QB and his 40 time was nearly identical to Cam Newton's
    • Intelligence Wonderlic score twice that of Newton- 42 and he repotedly knows the pro game very well
    • Leadership Reported to have outperformed the other QBs during combine interviews; Easier to follow without the red flags concerning character and inflated self-image
    • Mechanics: Better footwork, quicker delivery than other prospects, according to Brandt and other scouts at pro day.
    • Accuracy: Compared to Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez and Ryan. Threw 2 bad balls at pro day with WRs he was not familiar with.

How again is Newton's upside higher than Gabbert's? Again, I want a trade, so I don't want either. But it seems the UPSIDE of Cam Newton is being thrown around as an excuse to forget the red flags. The red flags are why his upside is lower than Gabbert's. How many SUCCESSFUL QBs in the league have character concerns, accuracy issues, and limited starting D1 experience? How many successful QBs are intelligent, accurate, and have the intelligence to lead/coach on the field?

Gabbert has the upside if either do. If you think Cam's is higher, you haven't paid attention to the past 75 years of QB play in the NFL.

I KNOW SOME WILL COME ON HERE, NOT READ THE POST, AND MAKE SOME CRITICAL COMMENT ABOUT ANOTHER SIMILAR THREAD. REMEMBER, YOU HAD THE OPTION OF NOT OPENING THE THREAD AND YOUR LIFE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALTERED.

THIS IS TO ADDRESS THE TERM "UPSIDE' AS IF CAM'S IS HIGHER WITHOUT QUESTION. THAT IS A FALLACY. IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO EVALUATE TALENT, YOU NEED TO DO SO WITHOUT ALLOWING YOUR BIAS TO MAKE BASIC ASSUMPTIONS THAT YOU CONVERT TO FACT AS THE CORNERSTONE OF YOUR LOGIC.

Besides being bigger/stronger/faster if we Drafted Cam is would piss you and so many others like you off. People who think they know something and vomit text onto my forums.

In short it gives us the slim chance you will just stop.

That is a huge upside.

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