What is this UPSIDE that makes Cam better than Gabbert?

[MHS831]

First of all, I seek a trade down. No labels.

But despite all of the reasons to see Cam Newton's downside as a threat to the upside...:

• Attitude (icon, a few comments on NFL Network about teammates at Auburn are now saying he was selfish and self-promoting).
  
• Character (Stolen computer, accusations involving stealing from teammates' lockers, 4 counts of academic fraud, NCAA investigation)
  
• Mechanics (footwork, throwing motion, spread offense background)
  
• Accuracy (Combine-52%, pro day below average with familiar WRs)
  
  But the Cam supporters are now arguing that Cam's leadership and UPSIDE are better than Gabbert's. REALLY???
  
  Gabbert's Upside:
  
  • Athleticism perfect size for QB and his 40 time was nearly identical to Cam Newton's
    
  • Intelligence Wonderlic score twice that of Newton- 42 and he repotedly knows the pro game very well
    
  • Leadership Reported to have outperformed the other QBs during combine interviews; Easier to follow without the red flags concerning character and inflated self-image
    
  • Mechanics: Better footwork, quicker delivery than other prospects, according to Brandt and other scouts at pro day.
    
  • Accuracy: Compared to Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez and Ryan. Threw 2 bad balls at pro day with WRs he was not familiar with.
    

How again is Newton's upside higher than Gabbert's? Again, I want a trade, so I don't want either. But it seems the UPSIDE of Cam Newton is being thrown around as an excuse to forget the red flags. The red flags are why his upside is lower than Gabbert's. How many SUCCESSFUL QBs in the league have character concerns, accuracy issues, and limited starting D1 experience? How many successful QBs are intelligent, accurate, and have the intelligence to lead/coach on the field?

Gabbert has the upside if either do. If you think Cam's is higher, you haven't paid attention to the past 75 years of QB play in the NFL.

I KNOW SOME WILL COME ON HERE, NOT READ THE POST, AND MAKE SOME CRITICAL COMMENT ABOUT ANOTHER SIMILAR THREAD. REMEMBER, YOU HAD THE OPTION OF NOT OPENING THE THREAD AND YOUR LIFE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALTERED.

THIS IS TO ADDRESS THE TERM "UPSIDE' AS IF CAM'S IS HIGHER WITHOUT QUESTION. THAT IS A FALLACY. IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO EVALUATE TALENT, YOU NEED TO DO SO WITHOUT ALLOWING YOUR BIAS TO MAKE BASIC ASSUMPTIONS THAT YOU CONVERT TO FACT AS THE CORNERSTONE OF YOUR LOGIC.

[CatMan72]

Cam's upside:

1. Winner:14-0, National Championship, Heisman

2. Stronger arm, better deep thrower, more mobile.

3. Threw for 30 td's, 7 int's (compared to Gabbert's 16 td's, 9 int's)

4. Did all that while being under the pressure of an NCAA investigation.

[JawnyBlaze]

Cam's upside:

1. Winner:14-0, National Championship, Heisman

2. Stronger arm, better deep thrower, more mobile.

3. Threw for 30 td's, 7 int's (compared to Gabbert's 16 td's, 9 int's)

4. Did all that while being under the pressure of an NCAA investigation.

What he said. Just because Gabbert had a similar 40 time running in a straight line doesn't make him as mobile as Cam. Everything I've seen tells me Cam has MUCH more agility and lateral quickness. Much better at avoiding the tackle and seems stronger and harder to take down. Cam's arm seems EASILY stronger. These two are the main points to Cam's upside, as far as I can tell. As a side benefit, Cam also seems to have the personality you want in the face of your franchise.

[firstdayfan]

I mentioned this in another thread but using his completion percentage at the combine as a barometer for his accuracy is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, of course you can't see the upside bc you compared Newtons negatives (not all of them warranted) to Gabbert's positives (not all of them warranted) so that skews the views quite a bit.

I don't love or hate any prospect but it amazes me how much people just do NOT like Newton. I just can't pu my finger on it...he performed well at his pro day, made a decent wonderlic score, did well in interviews, but people still dont like him. No one will change your mind about him so there really is no point discussing it any more.

And I've heard more differences in opinion on Gabbert than Newton...some people say that scouts say he is no better than a second round talent, while others say he should go number one overall. Some say his proday was Sam Bradford esque while others say it didn't change a thing. Maybe that's why nobody sees his upside...

[MHS831]

Cam's upside:

1. Winner:14-0, National Championship, Heisman

2. Stronger arm, better deep thrower, more mobile.

3. Threw for 30 td's, 7 int's (compared to Gabbert's 16 td's, 9 int's)

4. Did all that while being under the pressure of an NCAA investigation.

So college success = pro success? THe NCAA investigation was his doing. Noticed you didn't mention the fact that Gabbert is more intelligent, has a quicker release, better accuracy, and played behind a much worse OL and had a horrible D.

If college was all that mattered, there would be no pro days. Since the experts do not know how to measure a QBs success by watching college film, they interview, conduct workouts, etc. What are the most important characteristics of a QB in the NFL:

1. Leadership and Intelligence--I give this one to Gabbert. Yeah, he doesn't attract the cameras like Cam did, but he played for Missouri.

2. Accuracy and quick release--This is why success in the NFL has nothing to do with success in college. NFL DBs will eat you alive if you give throws away and miss the target. 52% (combine) vs. no rush, no dbs, and no wind/weather concerns?

3. Character and work ethic--Gabbert. Cam has work ethic. He has been coached up to get him a contract and to answer the obvious questions coming his way, but the scouts raved about Gabbert's interviews and his football knowledge.

So a year of college football success and a strong arm give Cam the highest upside when so many other flaws are characteristic of the league's biggest busts?

And even though the experts fail much of the time, you are certain that Cam has a better NFL future ahead of him than Gabbert? Certain? If so, you are a closed-mined hugger and may God have mercy on your soul if you use the same formula to make more significant decisions in your life.

[MHS831]

What he said. Just because Gabbert had a similar 40 time running in a straight line doesn't make him as mobile as Cam. Everything I've seen tells me Cam has MUCH more agility and lateral quickness. Much better at avoiding the tackle and seems stronger and harder to take down. Cam's arm seems EASILY stronger. These two are the main points to Cam's upside, as far as I can tell. As a side benefit, Cam also seems to have the personality you want in the face of your franchise.

These are not running backs. Gabbert's arm is strong enough to make all the throws too. Jeff George and Jamarcus Russell had cannons. Personality?

Gabbert is smart enough to be a coach on the field. This really reminds me of the Ryan Leaf-Peyton Manning debates in 1998 (I think). Leaf was more mobile, threw it harder.

[teeray]

First of all, I seek a trade down. No labels.

But despite all of the reasons to see Cam Newton's downside as a threat to the upside...:

• Attitude (icon, a few comments on NFL Network about teammates at Auburn are now saying he was selfish and self-promoting).
  
• Character (Stolen computer, accusations involving stealing from teammates' lockers, 4 counts of academic fraud, NCAA investigation)
  
• Mechanics (footwork, throwing motion, spread offense background)
  
• Accuracy (Combine-52%, pro day below average with familiar WRs)
  
  But the Cam supporters are now arguing that Cam's leadership and UPSIDE are better than Gabbert's. REALLY???
  
  Gabbert's Upside:
  
  • Athleticism perfect size for QB and his 40 time was nearly identical to Cam Newton's
    
  • Intelligence Wonderlic score twice that of Newton- 42 and he repotedly knows the pro game very well
    
  • Leadership Reported to have outperformed the other QBs during combine interviews; Easier to follow without the red flags concerning character and inflated self-image
    
  • Mechanics: Better footwork, quicker delivery than other prospects, according to Brandt and other scouts at pro day.
    
  • Accuracy: Compared to Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez and Ryan. Threw 2 bad balls at pro day with WRs he was not familiar with.
    

How again is Newton's upside higher than Gabbert's? Again, I want a trade, so I don't want either. But it seems the UPSIDE of Cam Newton is being thrown around as an excuse to forget the red flags. The red flags are why his upside is lower than Gabbert's. How many SUCCESSFUL QBs in the league have character concerns, accuracy issues, and limited starting D1 experience? How many successful QBs are intelligent, accurate, and have the intelligence to lead/coach on the field?

Gabbert has the upside if either do. If you think Cam's is higher, you haven't paid attention to the past 75 years of QB play in the NFL.

I KNOW SOME WILL COME ON HERE, NOT READ THE POST, AND MAKE SOME CRITICAL COMMENT ABOUT ANOTHER SIMILAR THREAD. REMEMBER, YOU HAD THE OPTION OF NOT OPENING THE THREAD AND YOUR LIFE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALTERED.

THIS IS TO ADDRESS THE TERM "UPSIDE' AS IF CAM'S IS HIGHER WITHOUT QUESTION. THAT IS A FALLACY. IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO EVALUATE TALENT, YOU NEED TO DO SO WITHOUT ALLOWING YOUR BIAS TO MAKE BASIC ASSUMPTIONS THAT YOU CONVERT TO FACT AS THE CORNERSTONE OF YOUR LOGIC.

I am out of town so I have to do this on my cell phone so I won't give my typical wall of gext response.

Instead I will say, every credible expert says the same thing. In a nutshell his size, throwing motion, arm strength, and abilities to make plays outside the pocket are unique for a guy 6'6 250.

Some people have had pieces of this. Russell had the arm strength and size, Vick had the ability outside the pocket. He has a really good release, something Vince Young and The Golden Calf of Bristol did not have. He is a more natural passer than either of these guys.

In short, he has tools at the QB position that we really haven't ever seen for a guy 6'6 250. The only unknown is how some of these tools translate to the NFL. If you believe he will be able to make plays outside the pocket as well as I think he will be able to then you have a guy that can be virtually unstoppable much like he was in college.

In other words, his upside would be take everything that is great about Ben Roethlisberger and Mike Vick and put it into one player. That is the upside of Cam Newton IMO.

[Sam Mills Fan]

I find it funny how people say Cam is just a guy with potential and nothing more. Well, then what does that make Blaine Gabbert? We SAW Cam get it done in college, that's not the potential to getting it done that's actually getting it done. What did we see in Blaine Gabbert in college? Essentially NOTHING. If you're talking about drafting a player because of their potential, you better be talking about Gabbert because right now, his only positives are numbers. Height, weight, arm strength, etc. He's never gotten it done on the field.

[jramsey4]

I hear a lot of ppl compare him to VY. Even though I think Newton is a much better prospect wouldn't you like to have a VY that wasn't a headcase and had a good work ethic. Newton would have laughed at some of the things that made VY break. He has handle adversity all year and it didn't affect his play at all.

To me thats upside. Also VY was a big reason broke the record for most yards. Mobile QB's make defense respect the edges which allows more room up the gut. And Gabbert is horrible I really have no idea how he got this hype. I think he is just as much a work in progress as Cam.

[Primetime 89]

Cam's upside:

1. Winner

:cool:

[Jaxel]

Don't know when Gabbert became a loser... pretty sure his record is around 23-5 or something... and he beat a number 1 ranked team... Saying Gabbert isn't a winner cause he didn't have the college stats that Cam did is ridiculous.

Cam is the sexier pick.. that's why he's regarded to have more upside.

[1989]

I think the evidence is in the film. Cam is MUCH more agile. He can throw the deep ball- all I see from Gabbert is screen passes or 5 yard dump offs. I really dont think Gabbert is going to translate well into the NFL. Very Clausen like.

[TylerVagyler]

This is a dumb argument. Both guys have upside. Cam is just a unique situation and could potentially bring something to the league that we've never seen before.

On the other hand, both guys could be huge busts.

You can make the same argument about many of the top prospects.

[micnificent28]

So college success = pro success? THe NCAA investigation was his doing. Noticed you didn't mention the fact that Gabbert is more intelligent, has a quicker release, better accuracy, and played behind a much worse OL and had a horrible D.

If college was all that mattered, there would be no pro days. Since the experts do not know how to measure a QBs success by watching college film, they interview, conduct workouts, etc. What are the most important characteristics of a QB in the NFL:

1. Leadership and Intelligence--I give this one to Gabbert. Yeah, he doesn't attract the cameras like Cam did, but he played for Missouri.

2. Accuracy and quick release--This is why success in the NFL has nothing to do with success in college. NFL DBs will eat you alive if you give throws away and miss the target. 52% (combine) vs. no rush, no dbs, and no wind/weather concerns?

3. Character and work ethic--Gabbert. Cam has work ethic. He has been coached up to get him a contract and to answer the obvious questions coming his way, but the scouts raved about Gabbert's interviews and his football knowledge.

So a year of college football success and a strong arm give Cam the highest upside when so many other flaws are characteristic of the league's biggest busts?

And even though the experts fail much of the time, you are certain that Cam has a better NFL future ahead of him than Gabbert? Certain? If so, you are a closed-mined hugger and may God have mercy on your soul if you use the same formula to make more significant decisions in your life.

First off do you really think auburn's team is really that much better than mizzou's? Take away cam and you probably wouldn't have even said there name once this year. Gabbert has had the oppertunity to throw to nfl caliber recivers in j. machlin,and danrio alexander(looked very good for the Rams before injury). Name me one of auburns recivers without looking it up?

Leadership-Yes gabbert lead his team to a insight.com bowl loss, while Cam Newton "willed" his team to the national championship.The investigation was his own doing but he thrived in it and didn't fold.The comeback against Alabama was nothing less than a thing of beauty against maybe the best team in the country.

What makes Gabbert a better leader than cam what has he lead anywhere? No one seems to consider it's important to be a winner,didn't we see this with clausen last year? looking good in prodays is fine and dandy but the game is played on the field.

Arm strength-I think both of them have a great arm, infact i'm not even sure

who's arm is bigger. Gabbert can throw but isn't very accurate with the deep ball. Some would say this is where cam is best at.

Moblity-yes both have similar 40 times and i must say i was suprised by gabberts speed.But do you really think he's as fast as cam? They both cam exstend plays but cam has a much bigger edge in avoiding the pass rush.Gabbert looks kind of "wonky" and flustered when asked to make plays outside of the pocket.Cam looks like he's in his element avoiding sacks and picking up big gains.

I know your not big on moblity but please believe it is a much bigger facter than you think. Imagine if brady or manning had the same speed to exstend play's a tenth of a second longer to find a open reciver or pick up an important third and five.