Hurney, Rivera Looking like IDIOTS

[Stumpy]

Kinda like when TEN built a team to beat Peyton, they went and got Collins, and when NYJ wanted to build a team to beat Brady and Peyton they went and got Sanchez? Right? SMH

[chef17]

So...

Best way to stop a WR = CB

Best way to stop a RB = DT

but...

Best way to stop a QB = QB

One of these things is not like the other.

This. An elite QB doesn't counter an elite QB. Just leads to a shoot out

[Verge]

i agree with all that. i just have a difference in opinion with Gabbert. Im more for Cam cause i think he will fit the new offensive scheme better. I like Gab and if he fits better than Cam then thats our guy

I just don't see it, I watch highlights of Cam and every deep throw was to a wide open receiver, I see him stare down receivers 60% of the time, and a large of the percentage of the time he makes one or two reads and takes off on a non designed run play. I wouldn't mind if he had MV speed or The Golden Calf of Bristol power, but he doesn't have either. If I truly wanted a run first qb in this draft I would take Locker a million times over.

I also have an issue with Cams off the field problems, what kind of qb or leader steals a team mates laptop? What kind of self respecting person auctions himself off to teams and then lies about it to the national media.

Cam is so hit or miss it is not even funny, and if I had my money on it I would go ahead and say three or four qbs will have a better nfl career when all is said and done.

[CarolinaVeins]

I just don't see it, I watch highlights of Cam and every deep throw was to a wide open receiver, I see him stare down receivers 60% of the time, and a large of the percentage of the time he makes one or two reads and takes off on a non designed run play. I wouldn't mind if he had MV speed or The Golden Calf of Bristol power, but he doesn't have either. If I truly wanted a run first qb in this draft I would take Locker a million times over.

I also have an issue with Cams off the field problems, what kind of qb or leader steals a team mates laptop? What kind of self respecting person auctions himself off to teams and then lies about it to the national media.

Cam is so hit or miss it is not even funny, and if I had my money on it I would go ahead and say three or four qbs will have a better nfl career when all is said and done.

Im not gonna go into off field problems and defend him but most athletes that go through that and face scrunity usually comes out better than ever. not to say he will follow suit but it happens often. he is steady improving himself...any prospect can be hit or miss. just gotta have the balls to pull the trigger

[Jackofalltrades]

Verge, I agree to a point but you're essentially saying that a good defense can't neutralize a good QB and that's where I disagree. It depends on your team philosophy. With Fox we ran a ball control offense designed to keep those guys off the field, where a game manager type QB would suffice. On the other hand you have teams like the Saints who pass all day long and don't really care about time of possession as long as you outscore the opposition. Then you look at a team like Atlanta that can do all of it, the can own the TOP battle thanks to Turner, but they can also push the score and ball the air with Ryan, White, Gonzalez and Co, plus have a pretty good D to back it up.

If you can take options away from those QB's and force them out of their game plan then you've effectively beaten them. How likely is Brees to beat you if he can't let his routes develop? A guy like Peterson has the potential to take away an entire zone or side of the field and thats a huge deal.

Someone like Darius or Fairley keeps you front sitting in the pocket, or simply stepping up to avoid an edge rush. If a QB is one his back or running for his life he's not going to hurt you too badly.

IMO, there's just not a QB worth the top pick and would do very little thus year to help I'd drafted.

Darius and Peterson are Day 1 starters.

[Verge]

This. An elite QB doesn't counter an elite QB. Just leads to a shoot out

Okay.

Best qbs in each division.

AFC East:

1. Tom Brady

2. Mark Sanchez

3. Ryan Fitzpatrick

4. Chad Henner

AFC North:

1. Ben Rapelisberger

2. Joe Flaaco

3. Carson Palmer

4. Colt Mccoy

AFC South:

1. Peyton Manning

2. Matt Schaub

3. David Garrard

4. Kerry Collins

AFC West:

1. Philip Rivers

2. Matt Cassel

3. Kyle Orton

4. Jason Campbell

NFC East:

1. Michael Vick

2. Tony Romo

3. Eli Manning

4. Rex Grossman

NFC North:

1. Aaron Rodgers

2. Jay Cutler

3. Matthew Stafford

4. Joe Webb

NFC South:

1. Drew Brees

2. Matt Ryan

3. Josh Freeman

4. Jimster

NFC West:

1. Matt Hasselbeck

2. Sam Bradford

3. Alex Smith

4. Derek Anderson

Notice a trend? No team among these divisions without a qb in the top two won the divison, and 85% the top qb in the division won the division. You cannot stop Peyton Manning by drafting good corners, because a qb's affect on the game outweighs the cb's affect on the game. It is not so much draft a qb to stop a qb, but rather draft a qb to counter act theirs.

It makes sense in some dimension I am sure.

[CarolinaVeins]

Verge, I agree to a point but you're essentially saying that a good defense can't neutralize a good QB and that's where I disagree. It depends on your team philosophy. With Fox we ran a ball control offense designed to keep those guys off the field, where a game manager type QB would suffice. On the other hand you have teams like the Saints who pass all day long and don't really care about time of possession as long as you outscore the opposition. Then you look at a team like Atlanta that can do all of it, the can own the TOP battle thanks to Turner, but they can also push the score and ball the air with Ryan, White, Gonzalez and Co, plus have a pretty good D to back it up.

If you can take options away from those QB's and force them out of their game plan then you've effectively beaten them. How likely is Brees to beat you if he can't let his routes develop? A guy like Peterson has the potential to take away an entire zone or side of the field and thats a huge deal.

Someone like Darius or Fairley keeps you front sitting in the pocket, or simply stepping up to avoid an edge rush. If a QB is one his back or running for his life he's not going to hurt you too badly.

IMO, there's just not a QB worth the top pick and would do very little thus year to help I'd drafted.

Darius and Peterson are Day 1 starters.

i like that logic. so who in ur opinion is our QB and is he a franchise QB for us?

[Jackofalltrades]

i like that logic. so who in ur opinion is our QB and is he a franchise QB for us?

I really don't know, holding out hope for Palmer. I do think Moore and Clausen deserve a shot with a real QB coach, something neither has had yet in Carolina.

[chef17]

Okay.

Best qbs in each division.

AFC East:

1. Tom Brady

2. Mark Sanchez

3. Ryan Fitzpatrick

4. Chad Henner

AFC North:

1. Ben Rapelisberger

2. Joe Flaaco

3. Carson Palmer

4. Colt Mccoy

AFC South:

1. Peyton Manning

2. Matt Schaub

3. David Garrard

4. Kerry Collins

AFC West:

1. Philip Rivers

2. Matt Cassel

3. Kyle Orton

4. Jason Campbell

NFC East:

1. Michael Vick

2. Tony Romo

3. Eli Manning

4. Rex Grossman

NFC North:

1. Aaron Rodgers

2. Jay Cutler

3. Matthew Stafford

4. Joe Webb

NFC South:

1. Drew Brees

2. Matt Ryan

3. Josh Freeman

4. Jimster

NFC West:

1. Matt Hasselbeck

2. Sam Bradford

3. Alex Smith

4. Derek Anderson

Notice a trend? No team among these divisions without a qb in the top two won the divison, and 85% the top qb in the division won the division. You cannot stop Peyton Manning by drafting good corners, because a qb's affect on the game outweighs the cb's affect on the game. It is not so much draft a qb to stop a qb, but rather draft a qb to counter act theirs.

It makes sense in some dimension I am sure.

If your CBs shut down his WRs then yes that is exactly how you stop Peyton. I agree we need a QB, just I don't see your logic. Brady doesn't counter act Peyton

[Stumpy]

Okay...

NFC West

Seattle won the division based on the sheer ineptness of everyone else.

NFC North

Bears beat out Rodgers' Packers with defense.

NFC East

See NFC West.

NFC South

Atlanta beat out NO despite NO having better D and QB.

AFC West

See NFC West

AFC North

Steelers won division on the backs of their D.

AFC East

Pats won the division but Jets' D took care of Brady 2 out of 3 games. Not their fault no one else in the division plays D.

AFC South

See NFC West

[Jackofalltrades]

He's got a valid point if you're in an arms race, but there are plenty of ways to counter good QB's- see Dick LeBeau, Jim Johnson, Rex Ryan.

[chef17]

He's got a valid point if you're in an arms race, but there are plenty of ways to counter good QB's- see Dick LeBeau, Jim Johnson, Rex Ryan.

I understand the point he is trying to make, I just don't agree with his way of getting there. I don't understand how a defense doesn't counter a QB. I thought the point of defense was to stop the other QB.

[panthers55]

He's got a valid point if you're in an arms race, but there are plenty of ways to counter good QB's- see Dick LeBeau, Jim Johnson, Rex Ryan.

I am hoping that McDermott and Rivera can bring back some of that Jim Johnson magic. I have always wanted us to play D like his teams.

But the old adage holds true, the best defense is a good offense. If we could get Palmer it would be great. I just don't see Cincy letting him go. So we are left with the draft IMO.

But I know, you are not in favor of drafting a QB in the first round.

[Jackofalltrades]

I don't think Cincy will have any choice and will want to get something rather than nothing.