Decertification

[ThPantherFan]

What court do you know that stays open past 5pm?

Traffic court. Well, someone had to put some humor in here. I'm still pissed though.

[Jangler]

[ThPantherFan]

never seen where the employer has to open their books to the employee.

OK, time for the National Football League to dis-ban and then reform as the "Nationwide Football League".

The "league" then establishes "franchises" that agree to follow League hiring/firing/wage/healthcare guidelines. Those franchises then "hire" players under new contract guidelines that the league (parent company" has set.

Then never ever negotiate anything with a union ever again. If player does not "show up" for work...ie holds out - then fire him for missing work and hire another player. As all of the franchises are subordinate to the parent company, the fired player cannot be hired by a new franchise unless the parent company agree's. Employees can "transfer" to new locations when employment contracts have been completed.

So you have 32 places to apply for employment - every April those 32 offices have the opportunity to tender job offerings to prospective new employees based on prior year performance standards.

As with some existing companies, profit sharing can be offered to employee's - as set by the employer - NOT dictated by the employee.

I think this is a great idea.

[blackcatgrowl]

You simply don't get it. Re-read this again. The owners must PROVE financial hardship.

2. Increased financial disclosure. The employer will have to make a claim of inability to pay or financial hardship. although the company's financial information normally need not be disclosed in collective bargaining, when the employer puts profitability or financial condition in contention, the financial data MUST BE provided to substantiate the position.

I'm not trying to insult you, but you're dense and I doubt you can comprehend, so what's the point in responding?

Ok, since you want to call me dense repeatedly, I'm going to just go over this 5th grader style.

Step 1.

Read the part I bolded in your post.

Step 2.

Now... read this carefully... possibly out loud.

THE NFL IS SAYING THEY DID PROVIDE FINANCIAL DATA

Step 3.

Click the link below and read the article.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81eb9686/article/nflpa-nfl-release-statements-about-labor-situation?module=HP_headlines

Step 4.

Find this quoted part of their statement in the article.

The union was offered financial disclosure of audited league and club profitability information that is not even shared with the NFL clubs.

Step 5.

Connect the dots and see they are stating they did exactly what you are talking about in the wikipedia article you keep paste-spamming this thread with.

Step 6.

Profit?

[ThPantherFan]

All I know is I want De Smith's job. He basically accomplished nothing, then turned it over to the lawyers. I could do that.

I bet he made a million or two off of this as well.

[Cyclonus]

Hmm. I guess since I destroyed your argument you'd consider it "wrong".

Facts are, they ARE employees. The only difference is they are (well, WERE) unionized, and highly paid.

If you want to dispute it any further, answer me this:

Is/was the NFLPA a "labor" union or not?

[ncbobcat]

What court do you know that stays open past 5pm?

If they filed in Minnestoa where the players are suing the NFL, they had hours. If they filed in D.C. or NY, the courts stay open past 5:00, I'm sure. Also, it's not like they didn't have the paperwork in hand with a conduit at the courthouse just waiting for the word. Please son't tell me you nieve enough to think they actually had to draw up the paperwork today.

[riddel]

Ok, since you want to call me dense repeatedly, I'm going to just go over this 5th grader style.

Step 1.

Read the part I bolded in your post.

Step 2.

Now... read this carefully... possibly out loud.

THE NFL IS SAYING THEY DID PROVIDE FINANCIAL DATA

Step 3.

Click the link below and read the article.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81eb9686/article/nflpa-nfl-release-statements-about-labor-situation?module=HP_headlines

Step 4.

Find this quoted part of their statement in the article.

Step 5.

Connect the dots and see they are stating they did exactly what you are talking about in the wikipedia article you keep paste-spamming this thread with.

Step 6.

Profit?

If the NFL provided the financial data that substantiated the fact that they were losing money, then the union would not have decertified and left it up to the courts to extract the data from the owners.....

The owners didn't provide data to substantiate their claim....that's why they are going to court now....I'm really done responding to your ignorance.

[riddel]

If they filed in Minnestoa where the players are suing the NFL, they had hours. If they filed in D.C. or NY, the courts stay open past 5:00, I'm sure. Also, it's not like they didn't have the paperwork in hand with a conduit at the courthouse just waiting for the word. Please son't tell me you nieve enough to think they actually had to draw up the paperwork today.

They had the paperwork prepared weeks ago.....the fact is the NFL didn't provide the financial data required....the union exercised it's right to decertify based on the fact the owners refused to bargain in good faith...good faith requires that the owners provide the data necessary to substantiate their claim that they are losing money.

[blackcatgrowl]

If the NFL provided the financial data that substantiated the fact that they were losing money, then the union would not have decertified and left it up to the courts to extract the data from the owners.....

The owners didn't provide data to substantiate their claim....that's why they are going to court now....I'm really done responding to your ignorance.

Whoa whoa whoa...

What proof do you have that the NFL DID NOT

provide the financial data that substantiated the fact that they were losing money

?

Has the NFLPA issued a statement to that effect? Have you sat on the committee and seen the numbers? Do you have the financials downloaded somewhere? Do you know exactly the line item P&L numbers from their accounting ledger?

You're entire argument is based on assertion, and a baseless inference that the NFL is misleading the public in making their statment or lying.

The owners didn't provide data to substantiate their claim....that's why they are going to court now

The NFL says they did. Are you calling the league liars?

And you're calling ME ignorant?

[riddel]

Whoa whoa whoa...

What proof do you have that the NFL DID NOT

?

Has the NFLPA issued a statement to that effect? Have you sat on the committee and seen the numbers? Do you have the financials downloaded somewhere? Do you know exactly the line item P&L numbers from their accounting ledger?

You're entire argument is based on assertion, and a baseless argument that the NFL is misleading the public in making their statment or lying.

And you're calling ME ignorant?

Well. Proof is in the pudding. The courts will substantiate the data now and if the owners don't prove that they were indeed facing financial hardship, then the antitrust lawsuits will cripple them....I'm willing to bet the players union saw enough information to establish that they had a winning case....

Whether you realize it or not....the players did the fans a favor....football will now be played once the Judge reinstates the 2010 CBA while the litigation takes place, which may take YEARS....so we will have football, while the owners and players fight it out in court....

[ncbobcat]

They had the paperwork prepared weeks ago.....the fact is the NFL didn't provide the financial data required....the union exercised it's right to decertify based on the fact the owners refused to bargain in good faith...good faith requires that the owners provide the data necessary to substantiate their claim that they are losing money.

Data was offered by the owners and then promptly refused because it wasn't the length or detailed enough to the union's liking.

[riddel]

Data was offered by the owners and then promptly refused because it wasn't the length or detailed enough to the union's liking.

exactly...it wasn't the length or detailed enough....you just answered your own question...

[ncbobcat]

Riddle, please tell me you are self-employeed. If not, the next time your review comes around and the business says that due to the ecomony raises will be frozen temporarily. Be a man and tell you boss to open the books and prove a finacial burden as the reason for no wage increase.