FYI on the Newton Debate

[Proudiddy]

We've been all over the supposed "Football reasons". Pretty much every possible concern has been refuted, or Cam has show it is not beyond his ability, in just a handful of weeks, to overcome.

And yet, day in, day out, in almost every thread, the Cam-hate club bashes and bashes and tries every angle to make him look bad.

It has come to the point where those arguing against him either:

1: ) Don't have all the facts about him as a player, or our needs as a team

2: ) Are ignoring the facts in their own stubborn defense of an opinion that was proven inaccurate.

3: ) ARE haters.

The same people against Cam were some of the people for Andrew Luck. When Luck said he was staying in school, and Cam's name got mentioned, we heard things like "We don't need more youth!", even though Luck would have been that. Or "we don't need a QB from the draft.", despite Luck being exactly that.

You guys talk out of both sides of your mouth, and I'm really sick of the rhetoric.

As I've been saying, I'd rather you chumps man up and just be honest and say "I don't like him, and that's why we shouldn't pick him.", than continue to banter on and on about irrelevant issues that don't factor into him being selected. You don't even have to reveal WHY you don't like him. Just man up and say you don't, and move the hell on.

Bottom line is this. Despite the campaign waged against him or for him on this board... he's coming here for a private workout and interview. Rivera has said positive things about him and had dinner with him. Hurney has said we need to address the QB position more than anything else, and we aren't trading our draft pick. They are going to make their decision, and there isn't jack any of us can do about it.

THANK YOU BCG. PERFECT.

The argument is being perpetuated because in fact, it is guys like Mr. Scot who are drawing the lines and demanding people step on one side or the other. The guy got pissy because I basically said Billick was a hater.

And for you old heads - being a hater doesn't necessarily mean you "HATE" someone.

BUT, continuing to beat a dead horse and say "I don't want Cam because I don't want him, there are other needs" yet not pontificating on that, you are making yourself out to be a hater because you aren't backing your argument with substance. Yet, you try to whittle down anyone who is favor of Cam to being blind and an unintelligent football fan.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Ok... Well I want Newton at #1 and here are my 5 reasons.

1. Athleticism: There is no doubt that Cam is the most athletic player in this years draft, that has been stated by a countless number of scouts and experts. Unfortunatley athleticism doesn't win ball games. However, Cam has the ability to become a better version of Ben Rothlisberger. Newton's most valuable tool right now is his feet and is right up there in the speed category with Vince Young and Michael Vick. Cam also has the ability to throw the ball, but he has not developed into the passer that Big Ben is. Now Cam can certaintly do that with hard work, this in itself makes for a great quarterback. A QB with the speed of Vick and the passing ability of Ben Rothlisberger would be something special.

2. "Give's us the best chance to WIN"- If a CB, DT, DE or any other player in the draft had the ability to take over a game other than a QB than I would actually consider arguments for Patrick Peterson and others. However, the quarterback position is the Panthers most depleted position and that cannot be argued it was seen last year as Clausen had the worst passer rating in the NFL last year. The quarterback is the only player besides the center that touches the ball EVERY single play which is why I don't think you can pass on a quarterback like Cam even if he may not be worth a 1st overall pick but if someone is going to sit here and tell me if we had the 3rd pick in the draft instead of the 1st, that you would take Newton. Well, I really don't see any other point to talk to you because arguing with you is useless.

3. Ron Rivera's "teach first" Coaching Staff- When Ron Rivera was hired many were thrilled with the higher. When one of Ron Rivera's first comments as the Panthers coach was that he was looking for "teachers" when considering his staff. Well now that the Panthers can get a player with all the intangibles, athleticism, and "it" factor so to speak who only needs some teaching from the coach's to become a good NFL quarterback everyone starts saying no. Why don't you guys have faith in the NEW coaching staff to produce a good talent.

4. Risk vs. Reward- I have heard ever since Andrew Luck went back to Stanford that there is no player in the 2011 NFL Draft that is worth the number one overall pick. Well if thats the case that means Peterson, Bowers, Green, Fairley, and Dareus are not worth a number one pick either...right? With that said, you have to look at the reward and I would love for someone to tell me that another player in the draft has a higher reward than Cam Newton.

5. Attention- There are too many floppers in the Panthers fanbase. Pick a side either you want media attention or you don't for the most part everyone does, but when the Panthers can get someone that will draw some media attention their way everyone flops like a fish out of water saying "oh no, we don't need this PR." Just pick a side. I personally would like to see Cam Newton on SportCenter's top 10 plays every once in awhile.

[ncmonzta]

Not everyone agrees that he's the best QB in the draft, even among the professionals. It's a matter of opinion, not an objective fact.

But honestly, even if he is, that doesn't mean he's a wise pick. There was a year when Heath Shuler was the best QB in the draft too.

Me? I don't care which one's best. I don't want any quarterback in this draft.

you dont have to agree its a fact. The media would have you believe its a matter of opinion but its not. Just listen to what I tell you and your life will be much better. What else does Cam have to do for you people. Men lie women lie numbers dont and neither does tape.

[ncmonzta]

And yet day in, day out, in almost every thread, the nut-huggers do the exact opposite.:cool:

mustang on Nascar track...need I say more:p

[Proudiddy]

Also, you don't strengthen your argument by stating one thing in one thread, having it disproved, then decide to start a new thread to bring attention to yourself and develop a new, defined stance that conflicts with your statements in the original thread.

That isn't intelligent, thoughtful, or original. Yay new threads! Yay ignoring substantial posts that refute false fronts!

[OneBadassCat]

Let's not act like there aren't any people here who want Cam aided by the fact that he's black.

[blackcatgrowl]

And yet day in, day out, in almost every thread, the nut-huggers do the exact opposite.:cool:

In case you haven't noticed, Cam's moved from being a high 2nd rounder on everyone's boards almost universally, to #1 overall on several people's boards, and at least #4 on all but a handful of boards.

This isn't because Newton magically cast a spell on anyone. It's because in a handful of weeks he's shown that he's developed new skills exponentially. Given a training camp, and Pre-season, who knows what he could accomplish? This is what people are seeing, and why he's got everyone on board.

When you refuse to see the facts, you're not making a valid logical argument. You're acting on emotion.

[MattB]

Me? I don't care which one's best. I don't want any quarterback in this draft.

Who is supposed to be the guy then? You keep mentioning vet QB's but there's no good options out there. The Bengals seem unwilling to trade Carson Palmer and even if they did why would he come here to the worst team in the league? Orton? McNabb? Hasselbeck? Volek? Like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. The best chance we ever have of getting a franchise QB is through the draft. We might never be in this position again. It's perfect timing with a new coaching staff coming in. Newton/Gabbert aren't perfect but they're the best options out there.

[PackPanther]

We've been all over the supposed "Football reasons". Pretty much every possible concern has been refuted, or Cam has show it is not beyond his ability, in just a handful of weeks, to overcome.

And yet, day in, day out, in almost every thread, the Cam-hate club bashes and bashes and tries every angle to make him look bad.

It has come to the point where those arguing against him either:

1: ) Don't have all the facts about him as a player, or our needs as a team

2: ) Are ignoring the facts in their own stubborn defense of an opinion that was proven inaccurate.

3: ) ARE haters.

The same people against Cam were some of the people for Andrew Luck. When Luck said he was staying in school, and Cam's name got mentioned, we heard things like "We don't need more youth!", even though Luck would have been that. Or "we don't need a QB from the draft.", despite Luck being exactly that.

You guys talk out of both sides of your mouth, and I'm really sick of the rhetoric.

As I've been saying, I'd rather you chumps man up and just be honest and say "I don't like him, and that's why we shouldn't pick him.", than continue to banter on and on about irrelevant issues that don't factor into him being selected. You don't even have to reveal WHY you don't like him. Just man up and say you don't, and move the hell on.

Bottom line is this. Despite the campaign waged against him or for him on this board... he's coming here for a private workout and interview. Rivera has said positive things about him and had dinner with him. Hurney has said we need to address the QB position more than anything else, and we aren't trading our draft pick. They are going to make their decision, and there isn't jack any of us can do about it.

Honestly I think Cam has all the talent in the world but do I want him. HELL NO. The reasons:

1) He is crook. Stealing a computer when at UF. Thats not someone who I want to be the face of my franchise.

2) I dont like his family. I know people will say you cant judge people based on their families but if his dad is blackmailing schools to get his son. I know this is generalizing, but bad families usually create bad kids.

3) I dont think he is smart enough to be a NFL QB. Just listening to him talk and seeing how he has worked with 3 big time QB coaches and still has so many problems, then I dont think he is smart enough.

4) I can see him being really just wanting to be an icon. He is going to have a big "possy", waste money, go to strip clubs, its just asking for trouble.

I know I am generalizing on a lot of these topics but I have just seen it time and time again and I cant see him being a big time QB.

[Urrymonster]

Ok... Well I want Newton at #1 and here are my 5 reasons.

1. Athleticism: There is no doubt that Cam is the most athletic player in this years draft, that has been stated by a countless number of scouts and experts. Unfortunatley athleticism doesn't win ball games. However, Cam has the ability to become a better version of Ben Rothlisberger. Newton's most valuable tool right now is his feet and is right up there in the speed category with Vince Young and Michael Vick. Cam also has the ability to throw the ball, but he has not developed into the passer that Big Ben is. Now Cam can certaintly do that with hard work, this in itself makes for a great quarterback. A QB with the speed of Vick and the passing ability of Ben Rothlisberger would be something special.

2. "Give's us the best chance to WIN"- If a CB, DT, DE or any other player in the draft had the ability to take over a game other than a QB than I would actually consider arguments for Patrick Peterson and others. However, the quarterback position is the Panthers most depleted position and that cannot be argued it was seen last year as Clausen had the worst passer rating in the NFL last year. The quarterback is the only player besides the center that touches the ball EVERY single play which is why I don't think you can pass on a quarterback like Cam even if he may not be worth a 1st overall pick but if someone is going to sit here and tell me if we had the 3rd pick in the draft instead of the 1st, that you would take Newton. Well, I really don't see any other point to talk to you because arguing with you is useless.

3. Ron Rivera's "teach first" Coaching Staff- When Ron Rivera was hired many were thrilled with the higher. When one of Ron Rivera's first comments as the Panthers coach was that he was looking for "teachers" when considering his staff. Well now that the Panthers can get a player with all the intangibles, athleticism, and "it" factor so to speak who only needs some teaching from the coach's to become a good NFL quarterback everyone starts saying no. Why don't you guys have faith in the NEW coaching staff to produce a good talent.

4. Risk vs. Reward- I have heard ever since Andrew Luck went back to Stanford that there is no player in the 2011 NFL Draft that is worth the number one overall pick. Well if thats the case that means Peterson, Bowers, Green, Fairley, and Dareus are not worth a number one pick either...right? With that said, you have to look at the reward and I would love for someone to tell me that another player in the draft has a higher reward than Cam Newton.

5. Attention- There are too many floppers in the Panthers fanbase. Pick a side either you want media attention or you don't for the most part everyone does, but when the Panthers can get someone that will draw some media attention their way everyone flops like a fish out of water saying "oh no, we don't need this PR." Just pick a side. I personally would like to see Cam Newton on SportCenter's top 10 plays every once in awhile.

Ummmm only one of those reasons is about Cam Newton, the rest are generic relations to the QB position or things outside of actually playing football...

[ncmonzta]

:shocked:

Let's not act like there aren't any people here who want Cam aided by the fact that he's black.

your right nothing to do with all the success and excitement he caused in his college career.

[Proudiddy]

Outside of maybe 5 posters, all the people that are okay/support taking Newton are having football conversations. Stop acting like a martyr.

Agreed. But, let's ignore the facts... It's time for another Mr. Scot thread telling us what we should think because he said so!

[Mr. Scot]

you dont have to agree its a fact. The media would have you believe its a matter of opinion but its not. Just listen to what I tell you and your life will be much better. What else does Cam have to do for you people. Men lie women lie numbers dont and neither does tape.

[Lout]

Rep