FYI on the Newton Debate

[MadHatter]

What those same folks ignore is that Newton learned the system on the fly. He came in to Auburn and in his first year put up great numbers. Of course it had to be simple because he was learning as he went. Just like we simplified our offense for Clausen this year who was learning a new system. Just like we will have to do with any starter not a seasoned vet this year given it is a new system.

That doesn't mean that the starter can't learn a more complex system or do more things down the road. it is a process. What I focus on is that if he could pick up Auburn's system in a matter of weeks and execute it at a high level, he should be able to make the transition if we do like St Louis did with Bradford which is simplify the playbook and expand it as he can handle more complexity. The best of both worlds is to have him sit and learn for a season or at least half a season as Freeman did his rookie year.

I just don't buy he has to wait for 2 or 3 years to learn the system. As quick as he improves and picks up things, I think he will surprise everyone and make the adjustment quickly.

I honestly think his private workout will be determine things like his football IQ, his ability to learn new things, his ability to watch film then execute what he saw etc. if they see what I think they will, he might be a Panther next year.

I understand all of your points.

Mu opinion is just that I see a ton of ?? about Cam. I am just not sold on him.

HOWEVER, if Rivera and staff think that he is the guy....I say that we should 100% take him #1. They know a hell of a lot more than I do on evaluating a QB.

If we take him, I will support and cheer for him as passionately as I would any other starting QB.

[Millions]

I think you are probably correct on those two points. My only questionabout McNabb are (1) is he a product of Reid's QB friendly system?

Not saying that he is, but he did look absolutely terrible in Washington (I know, it is Washington). However, many of the QB's that leave Reid's offense never find the same kind of success elsewhere.

However, I still would not mind him here.

Give me either Palmer or McNabb as my vet.

My biggest reason for wanting McNabb is the vet mentor aspect most importantly ala what he did with Vick.

[Actionman0z]

My problem with him is that he will not be an impact player next year for us, so why draft him? With the #1 overall pick you need impact players not players you HOPE will turn out to be stars. If we dont draft newton and he turns into a beast, I'll say the same thing.. he was not going to be an impact player for us day 1, Im glad we we went a different route.

No matter the spread offense and how "complicated" it is.. you make 1 read and run.. there is no progression and normally its half side reads.

[DaCityKats]

My problem with him is that he will not be an impact player next year for us, so why draft him? With the #1 overall pick you need impact players not players you HOPE will turn out to be stars. If we dont draft newton and he turns into a beast, I'll say the same thing.. he was not going to be an impact player for us day 1, Im glad we we went a different route.

No matter the spread offense and how "complicated" it is.. you make 1 read and run.. there is no progression and normally its half side reads.

you dont know that. jimmy couldnt make half field reads and he was supposed to be the most pro ready qb.

[TheRealDeal]

My biggest reason for wanting McNabb is the vet mentor aspect most importantly ala what he did with Vick.

Meh. I don't think McNabb knew he was a mentor to Vick and I definitely don't think he was expecting to only be there that year while Vick took over.

You can't assume he'd be on board with being a mentor and only starting again for a year until we ship him out. If he thinks he has something left in the tank, he won't come where he's grooming his replacement.

[Bj-Monster23]

Considering the comments by Cincy on Palmer are that they won't trade him and fine with his retiring (reminds me of Barry Sanders and Detroit) the chances of getting him are very small. So really other than McNabb, there isn't a good free agent available who can come in and do the job with any guarantee.

Neither Sanchez, Freeman or Stafford were considered worthy of the number 1 pick when they came out by Mayock or other pundits in a weak draft class. But if you look at the results both Sanchez and Freeman have turned into one and helped turn around the team.

Those waiting for Luck next year might as well be waiting to hit the lottery as well. Sure it could happen but it hasn't for us in a decade and even with Peppers we picked number 2 not number 1. Next year will be the one where folks get a king's ransom as everyone will be wanting to trade up for Luck, not this one.

People wanting to pass on Newton or Gabbert because Luck is gone remind me of folks who play the lottery. Everyone wants to play when the jackpot gets to 200 million or more (Luck) but once that is gone think that paying money to only get 50 million is not worth playing (Newton or Gabbert). However if they won any amount like that, it would be more than enough.

Newton or Gabbert are both worth a first round pick which in my mind makes them worthy of the pick we have in the first round regardless of whether it is 1 or 31. I know others think they would be worthy of a top 10 pick but not number 1. That kind of logic is passe with the rookie cap now. Like for the Jets and Tampa who both took a shot and succeeded, there is a good chance we will find our franchise guy as well this year.

You can't keep waiting to play until the jackpot gets so big hoping to be the lucky one that you pass on a smaller one that would do almost as well.

I know that is my opinion and others disagree. I just hope the Panthers agree with me this year. (it would be a first but I can hope).

You are correct to be honest i see more flaws in Gabbert game then I do in newton game. I went back to the game last year the championship game when Auburn played Oregon. Newton was not that stellar in that game why because he tried to be and Pro NFL QB what i mean by that. He stood in the pocket alot and make his reads with the Recievers why because the oregon defense was fast and he could run unless he had a huge whole. Next what i saw in that game was how he over threw the TE fade he under estimate hot reads of how fast players move. But with trainning camp witch will be a tough one with Rivera and working with Shula who use to be the head coach at Alabama could make cam a better QB.

I just dont see us getting Luck or anybody in the top of the draft next year unless we get a nice deal this year with tradeing down. Other then that Hurney and Shula should play very close to Cam Newton because he could be very good down the road.And you dont want to miss.

[panthers55]

I understand all of your points.

Mu opinion is just that I see a ton of ?? about Cam. I am just not sold on him.

HOWEVER, if Rivera and staff think that he is the guy....I say that we should 100% take him #1. They know a hell of a lot more than I do on evaluating a QB.

If we take him, I will support and cheer for him as passionately as I would any other starting QB.

I certainly do know you are a big panther fan and a good guy. If they pick Newton I will support him. If they pick someone else I will do the same. If they pick no one and go with Clausen I will support him like I did this year. Even if I post concerns on here about a player's ability come gametime I am in their corner yelling my butt off for them to succeed.

As Panther fans we all have to bury the hatchet come game day and root for the team no matter what. ( Then we can go after each other again come Monday through Saturday. LOL)

[rayzor]

missed out on the discussion and i'm not going to be reading a million posts to see if it has been discussed, but here's my question for all the anti-newton people...

with the success the panthers have had in the first round and the faith that is had in this new coaching staff, why wouldn't you want them to find him as top talent in this draft? why wouldn't you want them to see his talent and skill set and believe that they can coach him?

seems like if they pick him, then he's all but guaranteed to be good, that is unless you think every first round pick they made in the last 10 years was a fluke.

obviously they know a whole lot more than you (it's alright to admit it).

mr. scot threw out a lot of accusations that are made to the anti-newton pick guys, but one that he failed to mention is one that i think is really appropriate, is closed-minded. you assume he is just like all other so-called "running" QBs (i still think that is a BS term, but whatever).

most of you think that since no other QB that you pigeonhole the kid in with has seen success to your expectations or you are under the impression that the league isn't using the spread a whole lot more and QBs aren't choosing to take the majority of their snaps from the shotgun, so he has a minimal, if any at all, chance of success.

you've already made up your mind and hence have been rescued from having to challenge your own biases against him (not referring to racist so shut it).

[TheRealDeal]

with the success the panthers have had in the first round and the faith that is had in this new coaching staff, why wouldn't you want them to find him as top talent in this draft? why wouldn't you want them to see his talent and skill set and believe that they can coach him?

Why would I want them to find him as the top talent if he isn't?

We want them to find the top talent, regardless of who it is, we just don't believe it's Newton.

Why would we try and force them to see something that might not be there?

You are asking us to hope they see Newton as the top talent because you are a Newton fan. I haven't wanted them to see anyone as a top talent. I want them to simply find the top talent. We've stated who we think that is but we haven't gotten attached to anyone and "wanted" the Panthers to see him as the top talent. You get it?

If they do see him as the top talent, boom, done deal he's a Panther and we're all jazzed. If he's not, Boom, player X is a Panther and most of us are jazzed.

[Proudiddy]

missed out on the discussion and i'm not going to be reading a million posts to see if it has been discussed, but here's my question for all the anti-newton people...

with the success the panthers have had in the first round and the faith that is had in this new coaching staff, why wouldn't you want them to find him as top talent in this draft? why wouldn't you want them to see his talent and skill set and believe that they can coach him?

seems like if they pick him, then he's all but guaranteed to be good, that is unless you think every first round pick they made in the last 10 years was a fluke.

obviously they know a whole lot more than you (it's alright to admit it).

mr. scot threw out a lot of accusations that are made to the anti-newton pick guys, but one that he failed to mention is one that i think is really appropriate, is closed-minded. you assume he is just like all other so-called "running" QBs (i still think that is a BS term, but whatever).

most of you think that since no other QB that you pigeonhole the kid in with has seen success to your expectations or you are under the impression that the league isn't using the spread a whole lot more and QBs aren't choosing to take the majority of their snaps from the shotgun, so he has a minimal, if any at all, chance of success.

you've already made up your mind and hence have been rescued from having to challenge your own biases against him (not referring to racist so shut it).

Wow, who woulda thunk it? Close-mindedness being mistaken for racism, lol. That's why his argument is retarded. There has been a lot of stupid, baseless accusations made on this board, and he's been one of the main culprits in this debate.

He calls people stupid, ignorant, and my post "dumbass stuff" in another thread about Cam and then decides to make a new thread setting the rules for Cam discussion etiquette. Oh, and he put me on ignore because I successfully disputed his weak argument as well, so I just subsequently returned the favor because I'm tired of reading his self-aggrandizing rhetorical bullsh*t.

And he wonders why people assume many "Anti-Cam" people are racist or bigoted? Well, it's because he's declaring himself the face of it. I told him in the other thread, I don't take the issue of racism lightly, and I don't like it being thrown around with no basis as it is often here. But, when Mr. Scot is making himself the face of it and insulting others for questioning the viability of his sources as QB evaluators, it certainly seems he's flying off the handle a lot quicker than "Cam Fans" are. But, he's saying just because they don't like him it doesn't mean it's racism or anything other than football-related. I hadn't seen him post anywhere else his "football reasons" for not drafting Cam until this thread. I guess calling people names and insulting their intelligence is football related too.

He's also boxing people into one group or the other, when in fact, not everyone has always been a fan of drafting Cam, while others are still so-so on him.

And again, there have been so many others on this board who aren't in favor of drafting Cam... JOAT for instance, has been adamant about not wanting to draft him, and with JOAT, I sense his sincerity about it and although there are character concerns with him, I don't sense that there is any personal "dislike" for Cam - he just doesn't think it will be a good move football wise (including the character concerns). I can respect that.

So, simply, I won't be wasting my time reading anymore of his "I'm not racist, but here's a thread explaining why I'm not racist" crap. He flew off the handle calling people names when I addressed him respectfully, so he's lost any and all credibility he had built up with me over the last 4 years or so.

[TheRealDeal]

I can see you are really working on letting it go Diddy.

[Mr. Scot]

missed out on the discussion and i'm not going to be reading a million posts to see if it has been discussed, but here's my question for all the anti-newton people...

with the success the panthers have had in the first round and the faith that is had in this new coaching staff, why wouldn't you want them to find him as top talent in this draft? why wouldn't you want them to see his talent and skill set and believe that they can coach him?

seems like if they pick him, then he's all but guaranteed to be good, that is unless you think every first round pick they made in the last 10 years was a fluke.

obviously they know a whole lot more than you (it's alright to admit it).

mr. scot threw out a lot of accusations that are made to the anti-newton pick guys, but one that he failed to mention is one that i think is really appropriate, is closed-minded. you assume he is just like all other so-called "running" QBs (i still think that is a BS term, but whatever).

most of you think that since no other QB that you pigeonhole the kid in with has seen success to your expectations or you are under the impression that the league isn't using the spread a whole lot more and QBs aren't choosing to take the majority of their snaps from the shotgun, so he has a minimal, if any at all, chance of success.

you've already made up your mind and hence have been rescued from having to challenge your own biases against him (not referring to racist so shut it).

Simple question: Is it or is it not possible for an objective person to look at the facts of the situation and come to a conclusion that differs from yours (ie concluding that it would be better to pick someone other than Cam Newton)?

Yes or no?

[Proudiddy]

I can see you are really working on letting it go Diddy.

I'm past it. That was my last post on it. As I said, I'm not reading anymore of his senseless drivel, as I think this thread was just bait and a space fo him to try to justify his failure at maintaining an intelligent and coherent argument (one in which he lost) in the other thread. And of course, to meet his 3 new threads per hour quota and be an attention *****.

I just responded to that because rayzor touched on something that can't be overlooked. If I wasn't for drafting Cam, I definitely wouldn't want him representing my views, as they are all peppered with some sort of covert bigotry of a greater magnitude than football reasons. Why else would you resort to name calling? And there's no greater sign of prejudice than saying, "I'm not racist, BUT..."

And I have a reason to feel strongly about it TRD. Call me Charlie Sheen, but all I do is win, I don't lose. And in doing so, I don't take kindly to dickheads insulting my intelligence and then demonstrating how weak theirs is, yet they still go unchallenged by the majority. It pissed me off.

But, as I said, I'm good with it. Everyone else can enjoy his circle-jerk threads.

[Jaxel]

Take Peterson this year... Get Luck next year... Hey with half a season it's possible.