FYI on the Newton Debate

[Majestic87]

I'm sticking with Clausen....I don't want Netwon...Palmer...Kolb...None of them....Maybe McNabb if we could sign him for one year deal...but other than that nope...and the deal would have to hurt him more than it hurts us...

[JawnyBlaze]

While I agree it wouldn't be fair to make a final decision on Clausen based on last year, it would be absolute insanity to to into this coming year without a QB that wasn't on the team last year. None of them have shown they can handle a starting role.

Hell no to Kolb though.

I'm sticking with Clausen....I don't want Netwon...Palmer...Kolb...None of them....Maybe McNabb if we could sign him for one year deal...but other than that nope...and the deal would have to hurt him more than it hurts us...

[teeray]

God you are pathetic.

You mention tape, so let's go there.

The only TAPE on Newton highlights a skillset and tendancies which DO NOT translate well into an NFL QB.

1. He directed a one-read offense

2. He never took snaps under center

3. He never had to read defenses and check off at the LOS...the coaching staff sent in the play and he ran it.

4. He did not show an ability to go through 3-4 receiver progressions on a play

What you did see was a big guy running and overpowering smaller players. That WILL NOT happen in the NFL. If he tries it, he will be carried off the field on a stretcher.

Can Cam do all of the things necessary to be a successful QB...very possibly.

Is ther any evidence from his college style and proves he will....no.

Cam is a natural athlete that quite frankly must LEARN many of the aspects of a position in the NFL. Not exactly a player that I want to take with the #1 pick.

^ 2 & 3 are legit concerns. 1 & 4 are kinda bs. I see this a lot but it is simply not true. Just bc you have plays that are one read and run plays doesn't mean that is the crux of you offense. There is plenty of evidence that he has the ability to go through progressions and reads and make the correct throw.

If I was tech savvy at all (or not lazy) I would clip out some plays where he did show those things. Especially the second half of the season when he felt more comfortable. First half of the season there was a lot of that going on and I think a lot of people are basing that assumption off of those early games but it is not true.

[panthers55]

But eventually we are going to have to have a QB. Its plain and simple Carson Palmer can only do so much for so long, and in this league you want be a good team or win games if you dont have a QB. And if Rivera dont get that QB he want be a head coach for long. Look at Rex Ryan he went out and got that QB even though i dont think Sanchez is that good but he is good enough to get the job done. Look at Rahiem Morris he went out and got Josh Freeman and up and rising QB and in a tough division. All I am saying is if we dont get that QB it might be consequences down the road. Should we just wait into next year and pray that we get the first pick to get Luck or should we try our hand on Blaine Gabbert or Cam Newton.

I know that most draft scouts have blaine number 1, but can blaine really run our deep threat offensive system. IDK maybe we can find out next Thursday.

Considering the comments by Cincy on Palmer are that they won't trade him and fine with his retiring (reminds me of Barry Sanders and Detroit) the chances of getting him are very small. So really other than McNabb, there isn't a good free agent available who can come in and do the job with any guarantee.

Neither Sanchez, Freeman or Stafford were considered worthy of the number 1 pick when they came out by Mayock or other pundits in a weak draft class. But if you look at the results both Sanchez and Freeman have turned into one and helped turn around the team.

Those waiting for Luck next year might as well be waiting to hit the lottery as well. Sure it could happen but it hasn't for us in a decade and even with Peppers we picked number 2 not number 1. Next year will be the one where folks get a king's ransom as everyone will be wanting to trade up for Luck, not this one.

People wanting to pass on Newton or Gabbert because Luck is gone remind me of folks who play the lottery. Everyone wants to play when the jackpot gets to 200 million or more (Luck) but once that is gone think that paying money to only get 50 million is not worth playing (Newton or Gabbert). However if they won any amount like that, it would be more than enough.

Newton or Gabbert are both worth a first round pick which in my mind makes them worthy of the pick we have in the first round regardless of whether it is 1 or 31. I know others think they would be worthy of a top 10 pick but not number 1. That kind of logic is passe with the rookie cap now. Like for the Jets and Tampa who both took a shot and succeeded, there is a good chance we will find our franchise guy as well this year.

You can't keep waiting to play until the jackpot gets so big hoping to be the lucky one that you pass on a smaller one that would do almost as well.

I know that is my opinion and others disagree. I just hope the Panthers agree with me this year. (it would be a first but I can hope).

[RWatson43]

^ 2 & 3 are legit concerns. 1 & 4 are kinda bs. I see this a lot but it is simply not true. QUOTE]

Last time I checked:

2. He never took snaps under center - Pretty Darn important, at least +/-50% of snaps are taken under center

3. He never had to read defenses and check off at the LOS...the coaching staff sent in the play and he ran it. - Another Good trait for a Quarterback to have so he can know where to go with the football/ Check down or audible.

Again we are talking about using the #1 pick, pay a lot of money, for someone that is super athletic (yes), big arm (yes), game changer (yes), but does not have all the required skills/ tools already to do the job required as listed above. Again The Golden Calf of Bristol was dominant for minimum of 3 years and was taken 25th overall.

Cam will learn these things , but that takes time. We need someone with this pick to come to camp if it happens, and automaticly step in/ Game ready. If no football this year fine grab him.

Also his Athletic ability will be toned down by the athletic defenses he will face. You know Ray Lewis would/ love and can still to introduce him to the NFL.

You can not also deny he has to address the off field issues whether rumors or not, and convince the FO of any team that it will not harm the franchise that takes them down the road. Like it or not this does matter, just look at other guys in this draft that would be rated higher given the off field issues.

To say other wise, Come on Man!

[teeray]

Again we are talking about using the #1 pick, pay a lot of money, for someone that is super athletic (yes), big arm (yes), game changer (yes), but does not have all the required skills/ tools already to do the job required as listed above. Again The Golden Calf of Bristol was dominant for minimum of 3 years and was taken 25th overall.

Cam will learn these things , but that takes time. We need someone with this pick to come to camp if it happens, and automaticly step in/ Game ready. If no football this year fine grab him.

Also his Athletic ability will be toned down by the athletic defenses he will face. You know Ray Lewis would/ love and can still to introduce him to the NFL.

You can not also deny he has to address the off field issues whether rumors or not, and convince the FO of any team that it will not harm the franchise that takes them down the road. Like it or not this does matter, just look at other guys in this draft that would be rated higher given the off field issues.

To say other wise, Come on Man!

Let me get the off the field stuff out of the way. YES he has to deal with some of that stuff with the FO. I think that off the field stuff is actually pretty minor stuff but your concern is legit.

Taking snaps under center doesn't bother me a whole lot because that is true of so many QBs coming out of college these days and they usually make the transition pretty easily. The only rookie that I have seen having a hard time taking snaps was Jimmy Clausen.

The pre-read stuff is a legit concern. I have faith he will be able to learn these things. And I trust our coaching staff to teach these things.

The Golden Calf of Bristol would have been a top 5 pick had his throwing motion been tighter and his delivery was not so long.

And lastly I'm in the camp that believes that cam doesn't have to start day 1. It is a process and it would be unwise to throw ANY QB, including Luck, out there from day 1.

[panthers55]

^ 2 & 3 are legit concerns. 1 & 4 are kinda bs. I see this a lot but it is simply not true. Just bc you have plays that are one read and run plays doesn't mean that is the crux of you offense. There is plenty of evidence that he has the ability to go through progressions and reads and make the correct throw.

If I was tech savvy at all (or not lazy) I would clip out some plays where he did show those things. Especially the second half of the season when he felt more comfortable. First half of the season there was a lot of that going on and I think a lot of people are basing that assumption off of those early games but it is not true.

What those same folks ignore is that Newton learned the system on the fly. He came in to Auburn and in his first year put up great numbers. Of course it had to be simple because he was learning as he went. Just like we simplified our offense for Clausen this year who was learning a new system. Just like we will have to do with any starter not a seasoned vet this year given it is a new system.

That doesn't mean that the starter can't learn a more complex system or do more things down the road. it is a process. What I focus on is that if he could pick up Auburn's system in a matter of weeks and execute it at a high level, he should be able to make the transition if we do like St Louis did with Bradford which is simplify the playbook and expand it as he can handle more complexity. The best of both worlds is to have him sit and learn for a season or at least half a season as Freeman did his rookie year.

I just don't buy he has to wait for 2 or 3 years to learn the system. As quick as he improves and picks up things, I think he will surprise everyone and make the adjustment quickly.

I honestly think his private workout will be determine things like his football IQ, his ability to learn new things, his ability to watch film then execute what he saw etc. if they see what I think they will, he might be a Panther next year.

[panthers55]

I'm sticking with Clausen....I don't want Netwon...Palmer...Kolb...None of them....Maybe McNabb if we could sign him for one year deal...but other than that nope...and the deal would have to hurt him more than it hurts us...

It is interesting that out of all the Panthers front office, the only guy reportedly still in Clausen's camp is Hurney who picked him and is the only non-football guy in the bunch. Anyone who has played the game or coached it as well as the scouting staff now seem reported to want someone else. Take that for what you will.

You aren't alone though seems lots of folks thought he would be better than he was last year. Here was an excerpt attributed to Mayock.

"The character stuff hurt him more than people anticipated," NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock said.

"He has the physical skill set to be a top-10 pick in the draft, similar to Mark Sanchez last year. The question is, what kind of kid is Clausen? If you buy into him, work ethic, toughness and leadership, there's no reason not to take him. He's every bit as talented as Sanchez."

Seems the feelings about Clausen are as mixed as they are about Newton.

[JawnyBlaze]

And lastly I'm in the camp that believes that cam doesn't have to start day 1. It is a process and it would be unwise to throw ANY QB, including Luck, out there from day 1.

Yea, I agree. If we get Cam, hopefully they acquire a Vet that can go into the season the penciled in starter (or Clausen can perform a miracle and be ready for it) so Cam doesn't have to start. If he shows them he's ready to start at some point, then let him. But don't do to him what they did to Jimmy last year.

[CatMan72]

That's my favorite option on the QB front right now, though how much of a possibility it actually is would be a big question mark.

If we stay at #1, I'd prefer Peterson or Dareus. I could live with Fairley.

Don't really want A J Green because, like the QB slot, I think we need experience, not more youth.

I think McNabb is much more attainable than Palmer and has more left in the tank at this point.

[thefuzz]

You dont speak for the all "anti-Cam" posters. There are some here that really seem to ignorant to the fact he's the best QB in the draft and one of the best in college football history, i wont say any names*coughJOATcough*

I think he stole their laptop;)

I just LOL'd at the "one of the best QB's in college history" thing.

[MadHatter]

^ 2 & 3 are legit concerns. 1 & 4 are kinda bs. I see this a lot but it is simply not true. Just bc you have plays that are one read and run plays doesn't mean that is the crux of you offense. There is plenty of evidence that he has the ability to go through progressions and reads and make the correct throw.

If I was tech savvy at all (or not lazy) I would clip out some plays where he did show those things. Especially the second half of the season when he felt more comfortable. First half of the season there was a lot of that going on and I think a lot of people are basing that assumption off of those early games but it is not true.

Why would you think that running a one-read and run offense and not making read prgressions in the passing game are bs?

Actually, those are the two BIGGEST concerns that I have. If you can't do those things, you lock on WR's and end up throwing tons of interceptions.

[MadHatter]

I think McNabb is much more attainable than Palmer and has more left in the tank at this point.

I think you are probably correct on those two points. My only questionabout McNabb are (1) is he a product of Reid's QB friendly system?

Not saying that he is, but he did look absolutely terrible in Washington (I know, it is Washington). However, many of the QB's that leave Reid's offense never find the same kind of success elsewhere.

However, I still would not mind him here.

Give me either Palmer or McNabb as my vet.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

It's really not, it's actually a bit sick. Do you take a fancy for kicking injured animals? Says a lot about your character or maturity if you do.

Did you read the article on it though...

It was the other teams mascot and the guy that kicked the bird didn't know that. He said he was trying to get it off the field. The bird went down to the ground to begin with because it was hit by the ball.

It's kinda funny.