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Mayock has Locker above Newton

CarolinaCatBrigade

By CarolinaCatBrigade,
in Carolina Panthers

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teeray Rookie

teeray

Posted
Posted

Winning still means nothing. If you look at all the guys that won in college and how many won in the NFL, It's probably a 70/30 split of guys who never got a start in the NFL or guys you've never heard of that "won" in college.

Winning is so far down on the list of requisites for a QB it's not even funny. It's a nice supporting argument, but it can't be the foundation of the argument.

Ken Dorsey, Chris Leak, Craig Krenzel, Graham Herrell, Matt Leinart, Derek Anderson, etc etc etc

Winning means nothing.

Okay. Find me the list of QBs who had losing records and became great. Then get back to me.

It is a prerequisite to winning in the NFL.

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teeray Rookie

teeray

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A lot of that is due to the top high school talent usually going to the programs that win a lot. It doesn't necessarily indicate success at the pro level.

Do you consider guys like Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees etc... big time winners in college football? Those three played for programs that were relatively average or slightly above average in their conference.

Yes. Drew Brees took his team to the Rose Bowl, Matt Ryan was 11-3 at BC his last year, and Philip Rivers took one of the most irrelevant football programs in the nation and made them relevant for 4 years.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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The list goes on and on. It is no coincidence that the winners in the NFL were winners in college. It does translate. The above shows that this is obvious.

There's a reason why a lot of personnel people use "games won" as a criteria for drafting a quarterback, but there's also a reason they don't give a poo about "championships won" or undefeated seasons or usual metrics of an amazing college season.

As monstercat pointed it, people like to see that a quarterback elevates the play of those around him.

However, championships for quarterbacks has not historically been a good predictor of NFL success.

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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Okay. Find me the list of QBs who had losing records and became great. Then get back to me.

It is a prerequisite to winning in the NFL.

Losing isn't the argument. If you lose in college there could be a plethora of reasons for it but one of the main ones is that you probably aren't very good and therefor don't deserve to be in the NFL.

Just because that is true, it doesn't mean that winning in college matters either. Winning is nice as a complimentary factor but it has 0 bearing on NFL success.

Correlation does not imply causation

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monstercat Newbie

monstercat

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It's not just that Cam won in college. It's about how the team responded to Cam Newton being the starting QB. They absolutely worked their asses off for him and praised him for his leadership. Anybody who discounts the importance of a QB being the team leader and a winner, should just stay out of the conversation.

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Udogg Enthusiast

Udogg

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For those still following the teeray vs TRD daily discussion:

teeray says all the successful NFL QB's have been winners in college

TRD says wining does not translate to success

teeray yes it does, they are all winners at QB and no losers

TRD says well players that win don't automatically succeed.

teeray says I know all the winners don't succeed, however no losers succeed.

TRD says there are many reasons for losing, one might be bad team, the other being you suck.

Just a quick summation for you all that care :lurk5:

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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Can anyone think of a past example of a quarterback that was even close to highly touted coming out of college that had such a bad record as Locker?

I mean, I don't know where I'd put him on my board anymore, but his situation is somewhat unique I think, isn't it? At least in recent history.

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teeray Rookie

teeray

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Losing isn't the argument. If you lose in college there could be a plethora of reasons for it but one of the main ones is that you probably aren't very good and therefor don't deserve to be in the NFL.

Just because that is true, it doesn't mean that winning in college matters either. Winning is nice as a complimentary factor but it has 0 bearing on NFL success.

Correlation does not imply causation

Jimmy Clausen says hello. He was a loser in college he is a loser now.

Doesn't haVe to be National Championships. But great NFL QBs won in college.

Many at non-traditional powerhouses like Big Ben at Miami Ohio, Brees at Perdue, Rivers at NC State, etc.

So that is rubbish.

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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It's not just that Cam won in college. It's about how the team responded to Cam Newton being the starting QB. They absolutely worked their asses off for him and praised him for his leadership. Anybody who discounts the importance of a QB being the team leader and a winner, should just stay out of the conversation.

Because Cam was the only change the team made from a year ago :rolleyes:

You'd have a better argument if he came in after week 3 and the team completely made a change (like Moore did at the end of 09) for the better.

You can have Ken Dorsey, I'll take Jay Cutler

You can have Chris Leak, I'll take Matt Hasselback

You can have Craig Krenzel, I'll take Josh Freeman

Winning < Tools that translate to the NFL

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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Can anyone think of a past example of a quarterback that was even close to highly touted coming out of college that had such a bad record as Locker?

I mean, I don't know where I'd put him on my board anymore, but his situation is somewhat unique I think, isn't it? At least in recent history.

Cutler

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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Jimmy Clausen says hello. He was a loser in college he is a loser now.

Doesn't haVe to be National Championships. But great NFL QBs won in college.

Many at non-traditional powerhouses like Big Ben at Miami Ohio, Brees at Perdue, Rivers at NC State, etc.

So that is rubbish.

Agreed on Jimmy. If he's not pumping my gas next season while I toss him a 5er as a tip I'm going to be livid.

Yes, great NFL QBs won in college, so did QBs that didn't make it to the NFL.

Many of those guys that won in college, did it at big programs against big competition and many did it at small programs against small competition. Some did it at small programs against big competition.

No correlation whatsoever.

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