Lombardi: Clausen worse in practice than in games

[Mother Grabber]

Rich Eisen is never worth a listen.

[CRA]

Moore also sucked in 2010, worse than Clausen. His QB rating was lower, more ints in fewer games. I am telling you, the coaching staff did not care about 2011. Not one little bit. How much time do you think they dedicated to Jimmy Clausen until Moore was hurt?

He sucked, not worse than Clausen though. You are trying to compare a QB who started the overwhelming majority of the season to a guy who started a handful of quarters......with a few bad ones mixed in. You are claiming that since the end results in stats are similar despite a HUGE difference in reps/games means something it doesn't.

QB rating and stats don't always tell the story. Moore had some bad quarters but could run the offense. Moore did stuff in a brief window Clausen couldn't get done despite playing most of the season. Clausen couldn't run the offense. I mean if YOU go to bat 100 times and strike out 75% of the time and I go to bat 4 times and strike out 75% of the time......statistically we are the same. Clausen just sucked....Moore had highs and lows in his small window. Remove the bad throws from Moore's game and would have been fairly impressive QB (like he always has been). Remove the bad throws from Clausen's game and he simply isn't doing squat.

Clausen doesn't pass the eyeball test. That is what so many refuse to just acknowledge. No point trying to nitpick stats. Clausen had a better QB rating than Brees for 99% of the Saints game.....didn't mean anything in reality.

[panthers55]

Well Matt did have 2 years and a handful of starts with the playbook before he had to compete with Jimmy for the job.

Not saying that Jimmy will be better after this year but I think expecting him to be as comfortable with the playbook as a guy who has had 2 years with it is expecting a bit much.

This was supposedly the same system he played for 3 years under Weiss at Notre Dame. Davidson got his training under Weiss and installed Weiss's system. So Clausen should have had little adjustments to make.

As for being better this year, why would that happen when it is a completely different system using a vertical passing model and intermediate to deep passes which is what Clausen struggled with last year. He will have a steep learning curve this year as will the whole team.

[monstercat]

Or a lame duck coaching staff's inability to teach it. Read between the lines. Clausen was not scared, because he sucked in practice where they do not hit the QB. He was confused. That is fixable. He was the #3 QB for much of camp and came into the season a 21-year-old kid not knowing if he was prepared or not. He wasn't.

I just don't buy that at all. These coaches were auditioning for their next job, so there was no incentive for them to stop teaching.

[CRA]

This was supposedly the same system he played for 3 years under Weiss at Notre Dame. Davidson got his training under Weiss and installed Weiss's system. So Clausen should have had little adjustments to make.

As for being better this year, why would that happen when it is a completely different system using a vertical passing model and intermediate to deep passes which is what Clausen struggled with last year. He will have a steep learning curve this year as will the whole team.

wasn't the same system.

Weiss ran a variation of the WCO at Notre Dame. Which allowed Clausen to get the ball out quick....that was the emphasis Weiss had w/ Clausen.

Fox doesn't run that type scheme.....he requires a QB to stay in the pocket and go downfield. Fox's offense and Chud's require a lot of the same things from the QB.

[MHS831]

I thought he came from a NFL offense with similar verbiage??

And if he was confused but fixable with good coaching why wouldn't a QB we drafted that has better talent not be able to??

Verbage does not equate to gameplan or even philosophy. But your comment supports my point. If he already knew the basics, and has above average intelligence, why did the coaching staff not have him ready to play?

Secondly, the second comment suggests that talent coaches itself. You assume he had good coaching. You can't make that assumption without support to argue my point that he was not coached up.

[panthers55]

wasn't the same system.

Weiss ran a variation of the WCO at Notre Dame. Which allowed Clausen to get the ball out quick....that was the emphasis Weiss had w/ Clausen.

Fox doesn't run that type scheme.....he requires a QB to stay in the pocket and go downfield. Fox's offense and Chud's require a lot of the same things from the QB.

The terminology was the same and it wasn't a variation of the WCO but a variation of the erhardt perkins system which he installed in New England. Yeah the Patriots of 2007 when they threw all day used the same system that the Panthers did in 2010. They obviously ran it differently and with better personnel but if you aren't running a WCO or Coryell system it is likely a variation of the EP system.

Getting the ball out is a staple of most systems and isn't unique to a WCO. WCO uses timing routes and throw to a spot expecting the receiver to get there and use a short passing game to replace the running game. As such Weiss's system was not that.

[panthers55]

Verbage does not equate to gameplan or even philosophy. But your comment supports my point. If he already knew the basics, and has above average intelligence, why did the coaching staff not have him ready to play?

Secondly, the second comment suggests that talent coaches itself. You assume he had good coaching. You can't make that assumption without support to argue my point that he was not coached up.

The general comments I got from the analysts and watching the games is that the game never slowed down for him. He was more worried about trying not to make mistakes than he was moving the ball. "He looks scared and lost out there" was mentioned numerous times.

He was not ready to play but it was him not the coaching staff. He didn't have the leadership skills and confidence to lead the team. That is an internal trait not due to poor coaching.

That isn't to excuse the coaching or lack of it, simply to point out that QBs in particular have to bring a number of intangibles to the table and Clausen didn't have them last year. With competition likely it is not assured that he will fare better this year either.

[monstercat]

The bottom line is that JC ran an NFL offense at ND, was said to have an elite football IQ, and was supposed to be proficient at reading defenses and going through his progressions. I seriously doubt that he completed a single pass to his 3rd option, unless it was a checkdown though. This is why I laugh at all the people who are so worried about Cam Newton or Blaine Gabbert being able to go through their progressions. It's pretty much impossible that they could be any worse at it.

[CRA]

The terminology was the same and it wasn't a variation of the WCO but a variation of the erhardt perkins system which he installed in New England. Yeah the Patriots of 2007 when they threw all day used the same system that the Panthers did in 2010. They obviously ran it differently and with better personnel but if you aren't running a WCO or Coryell system it is likely a variation of the EP system.

Getting the ball out is a staple of most systems and isn't unique to a WCO. WCO uses timing routes and throw to a spot expecting the receiver to get there and use a short passing game to replace the running game. As such Weiss's system was not that.

Weis and Clausen and everyone at Notre Dame claimed it was a WCO....

Did you watch Clausen at ND? Or are you basing it all off what you saw Weis do in NE?

I mean, imo, there is little to debate Weis and Fox asked Jimmy to do COMPLETELY different things at QB.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

There is no way in hell he can be worse. He couldn't throw a TD in a game, so I guess he couldn't throw one in practice either.

[OneBadassCat]

Moore also sucked in 2010, worse than Clausen. His QB rating was lower, more ints in fewer games. I am telling you, the coaching staff did not care about 2011. Not one little bit. How much time do you think they dedicated to Jimmy Clausen until Moore was hurt?

Moore outplayed Clausen by miles don't even play that. Moore never had the consistent faith of Foxy. Moore looked pretty damn good for an undrafted rookie in 2007. Fox and his staff had 3 years to ruin him with his ass clown QB coaches yet he still played the best in 2010. Let's not act like Moore was Fox's guy in 2010. He was always eager to replace him.

In 2009 Fox decided he would rather watch Jake humiliate himself then give Moore a shot when there was still time to save the season. Then they say he's the guy and finally show him some faith and then they cut the legs right from under him and draft Jimmy. Moore has been so disrespected by the previous staff it's not even funny. Just because he didn't yell and shout like the ragin cajun fox saw it as a character flaw.

[Millions]

Plain and simple we need an upgrade and we will get one via the draft.

LOL at people debating who outplayed who between Moore and Clausen lose/lose situation time to move on they're both garbage. Moore is who he is and it can only go up for JC if he puts in work he'll be a solid back up.

[panthers55]

Weis and Clausen and everyone at Notre Dame claimed it was a WCO....

Did you watch Clausen at ND? Or are you basing it all off what you saw Weis do in NE?

I mean, imo, there is little to debate Weis and Fox asked Jimmy to do COMPLETELY different things at QB.

I understand where the confusion lies.

They had elements of a pro WCO offense with some timing passes, quick outs and slants but WCO offenses in the pros largely replace the running game with a short passing game. In college that isn't the case so a WCO offense in college look more like an EP system hybrid in the pros. For example Luck was in a college WCO at Stanford by all accounts last year. Yet they passed the ball 379 times and ran it 535 times.

Likewise in Clausen's last year, Notre Dame ran 401 times and passed for 447. In the pros that would not be usually classified as a WCO but could be a run heavy variation.

Did the Patriots system in 2007 look like the Panther system in 2008?? They are. There are different variations in every system and teams gameplan for what they do best.

But by all accounts the teminology was similar and he supposedly was familar with the system.