The Cam Newton and Race Thread!

[teeray]

Here is one for The Golden Calf of Bristol from Walterfootball.. http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2010ttebow.php

and Newton.. http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2011cnewton_greg.php

Well, it goes back to what I said in my original post. It is pretty easy to find a white QB with similar stuff as a black QB. I just think the threshold that a black QB has to pass to resolve those concerns are A LOT higher than that of a QB who is white.

I realize that Jamarcus Russell was a bust. But here is a guy who played in a pro system at LSU and scored a respectable 24 on the wonderlic but one of the concerns people had about him (besides his work ethic) was his ability to read complex NFL defenses.

Now Clausen had a similar wonderlic score and played in an NFL offense, here is what walterfootball had for him:

Extremely intelligent

Elite football IQ

Knows how to read coverage

But for Russell you see things like (these were lifted from a couple difffernt scouting reports):

needs to develop more and learn to diagnose defenses

will likely struggle greatly early in his career at reading complicated NFL defenses

Russell's understanding of the game is questionable at best

Now they both played in pro style offenses, had similar stats, and had similar wonderlic scores.

This is just one example. Again it isn't deliberate just guys that are black have to pass a higher threshold than white QBs

[ElkinPanthersFan]

I guess he just felt after winning 2 national championships and garnering every offensive award he could, that there was nothinng else to do in college. And honestly staying in Auburn's system wouldn't have done him any favors and might have developed habits which are harder to break.

Maybe so but if they had lost the BCS game, I don't think he would have stayed. Too much swirling around with his dad and Auburn. I do think that Nick Saban had a good game plan in the 1st half of their game and showed what NFL defenses could do against him. Alabama fell apart in that game but it was the game that showed 2 things, Cam's Weakeness and his leadership to will his team back into the game in the second half. He's just such a wild card that it is hard to get a reading off him.

[MHS831]

There seems to be an increase in white WRs and even RBs. Do I like to see it? Yes. I think the appeal of the NFL is due to the fact that there are so many types at each position and each position can contribute. Whites playing running back and wide receiver give hope to white children growing up as Warren Moon and Donovan McNabb inspired black kids to want to be QB.

When one race dominates a position, it creates a stereotype that impacts children for one, but it also builds bias in the adults coaching the chidren. As a coach on all levels, I know that white coaches automatically put the black kids at skill positions. A white kid has to be head and shoulders better before winning a WR, RB, even DB job. So, many are funneled to other positions at an early age.

Black QBs can tell you stories of similar stereotyping.

Take the NBA, for instance. One race clearly dominates. White players are a huge minority, and white kids are losing interest. As a sport, these kids grow up and either are or are not a part of the fan base, a part of season ticket purchasers. When a race is systemically eliminated, regardless of atheletic abilities, it hurts the sport.

At running back, people assume a white player lacks the speed and the change of direction to play the position. They are filtered out of football by the time they get to high school. Black QBs are not as cerebral, so they lack the ability to be a field general and make the correct decisions, or so many silently believe.

So the label filters kids at an early age because coaches have these ideas. Don't argue this point with me; I have seen it from first graders through high schoolers. We catagorize and label. It is how we function.

[countryboi]

i am still shocked you used Jamarcus Russell for a example of anything

[teeray]

i am still shocked you used Jamarcus Russell for a example of anything

Hind sight is 20/20. These were written before the draft and was used to compare how people were analyzing two QBs with similar wonderlic scores and offenses, it has nothing to do with how successful they are.

[mav1234]

Hind sight is 20/20. These were written before the draft and was used to compare how people were analyzing two QBs with similar wonderlic scores and offenses, it has nothing to do with how successful they are.

Clausen had "pedigree." He had a great coach who spoke very highly of him. He's a good interview apparently, very well coached. It allowed his apparently flaws regarding intelligence to be hidden. He might have also taken college more seriously but I kinda doubt it.

Plus, playing under Weiss is very different than playing at LSU. People assumed that Clausen could work in a pro style very well because of what he did at Notre Dame.

I do agree with you a little bit but I think a lot of that is changing, and I don't think Newton is being unfairly criticized due to race at all... since I'm not sure I've seen many people say he's stupid at all, and quite a few say exactly the opposite.

[ElkinPanthersFan]

I think The Golden Calf of Bristol is a better comparison than Young or Russell. Spread Offense, Strong Leadership, Big Arm, Trucking Capabilities, Questionable Footwork, Questions on ability to read defense in NFL, and only makes a few reads. I wasn't on this board wanting The Golden Calf of Bristol last year so go ahead and call me racist for not wanting Newton.

[teeray]

Clausen had "pedigree." He had a great coach who spoke very highly of him. He's a good interview apparently, very well coached. It allowed his apparently flaws regarding intelligence to be hidden. He might have also taken college more seriously but I kinda doubt it.

Plus, playing under Weiss is very different than playing at LSU. People assumed that Clausen could work in a pro style very well because of what he did at Notre Dame.

I do agree with you a little bit but I think a lot of that is changing, and I don't think Newton is being unfairly criticized due to race at all... since I'm not sure I've seen many people say he's stupid at all, and quite a few say exactly the opposite.

I will say this about Clausen, if he was a good interview, he would have gone in the top 20. There is a reason he slid to 42. I don't know what that reason was, but something warned teams about him.

And I don't mind what people said about Clausen. The point was that Russell gave no reason for people to say what they said about him. There wasn't anything he did to question his intelligence. And I think his wonderlic score was identical or at least very close to Clausen's.

I was speaking in generalities not necessarily about Cam specifically. He has brought a lot of the scrutiny on himself from his past actions and has no one to blame but himself. Even if I do think some of it is overblown.

I was talking in the broader sense of race and QBs.

[teeray]

I think The Golden Calf of Bristol is a better comparison than Young or Russell. Spread Offense, Strong Leadership, Big Arm, Trucking Capabilities, Questionable Footwork, Questions on ability to read defense in NFL, and only makes a few reads. I wasn't on this board wanting The Golden Calf of Bristol last year so go ahead and call me racist for not wanting Newton.

I am not comparing the players I am comparing ONLY the way people/scouts/media perceive intelligence when they are talking about their abilities to read defenses or learn offenses.

TRD brought up a good point that most black QBs come from spreads these days so I used Russell bc he did come from a pro system.

But The Golden Calf of Bristol is not nearly as developed as a passer as Newton is right now and nearly anybody from Mayock to McShay would say the same thing. But this thread isn't about this.

[TheRealDeal]

Even though Newton is/was ahead of The Golden Calf of Bristol as a passer, he's still amatuerish at best.

I'm not sure how "Pro" Russell's offense at LSU was anyway.

[ElkinPanthersFan]

Well here is the only reason I compare the two.. Look at their Heisman seasons..

Cam Newton in 13 games put up 30passing TDs, 20 rushing TDs and 1 receiving TD for a total of 51 touchdowns.. 7 ints

The Golden Calf of Bristol in 12 games put up 32 passing TDs, 23 rushing TDs for a total of 55 touchdowns.. 6 ints

Cam Newton: 1473 total yards on the ground or 113.3 yards/game

The Golden Calf of Bristol: 895 total yards on the ground or 68.8 yards/game

Cam Newton: 2854 total passing yards or 219.5 yards/game

The Golden Calf of Bristol: 3286 total passing yards or 252.8 yards/game

Cam Newton: 332.8 yards/game

The Golden Calf of Bristol: 321.6 yards/game

Cam Newton: 66.1% Passing

The Golden Calf of Bristol: 66.9% Passing

[Mr. Scot]

See this is what I was talking about. What if Kaepernick goes in the third and becomes the best QB of this draft?

Too many variables to be making these assumptions. Worst part is it's happening with posters whose opinions I respect quite a bit. Even Mr. Scot keeps saying "There are no QB's in this draft", I mean c'mon, nobody knows that right now.

The best part of all this is we can come back and look at these threads in a couple years and 99% of these posts will be so far from right it will be comical.

Just to clarify, saying "there are no quarterbacks I want in this draft" isn't the same as saying "none of the quarterbacks in this draft will ever be any good".

It's our situation as much as anything that guides me (i.e. we need experience, not more youth).

There are some runningbacks in this draft who may be great too, but do I want us to draft them? No. Our siituation doesn't lend to it (for different reasons).

Adding more youth to the QB spot is something I could only support for an Andrew Luck type prospect. There are none of those left. The guys that are there might be good, even great, someday. But that doesn't mean it's wise for us to take them right now.

[teeray]

Even though Newton is/was ahead of The Golden Calf of Bristol as a passer, he's still amatuerish at best.

I'm not sure how "Pro" Russell's offense at LSU was anyway.

You're amatuerish at best. :lol:

[Millions]

Luck probably wont ever be a Panther but we could get one of those QB's that could be great someday this year. Without having to cross our fingers with draft positions or if they fall to our team. Better chance than we had in years cause we're sitting at #1 to possibly get a QB with a lot of upside might as well pull the trigger imo.