Several teams at top of draft seem interested in Cam

[panthers55]

If we end up being forced to pick #1, this may be one of those drafts where any one of 5-8 guys could approach us and be selected #1 in exchange for a more "reasonable" contract.

I'm not sold on any of them as being head and shoulders above another- much less worth multi millions of dollars.

What if Cam came to us and accepted a very incentive-laiden contract which put the risk on him? Of course, that's what all rookie contracts should be IMO.

Depends on if there is a rookie scale and how it is structured. If it works like the NBA you are slotted to a specific dollar amount based on the position you are picked.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9303

There aren't any negotiations to it except for the option year and that is set in stone as well.

[carolinarolls]

The more hype he gets the better our position is. I am rooting for the kid for that reason first and foremost.

If we end up with him I definitely won't be disappointed but I certainly hope he does not play as a rook.

[MHS831]

We understand the difference we just don't think it is as big of a deal as you do given the liklihood of a new rookie wage scale. The problem with a first overall pick in years past is that the money between the 1st pick and the 32nd pick could be the difference between 75 million and 20 million. So it wasn't the draft position so much as the money involved.

With that evening out quite a bit with the rookie scale the difference might be 20 million versus 10 million which isn't that big of a deal.

If you can't trade down and historically that has been hard (might be easier this year) and you pick at 1, there is little difference between that and picking 10. Every team gets 1 pick in the first round and all that changes is the order.

If a QB is good enough to pick up at number 10 then he is good enough to pick up at 1 if he is who you want and he won't be there when you pick again. If you try and trade down to 10 where he is supposed to go and someone picks him early at number 5, then you get screwed.

Newton is a project like all rookie quarterbacks but he is the best one in the draft. Because he is raw people's opinion of him vary widely. But there are just as many guys like Gil Brandt who think you jump on him at number 1 as there are guys like Mayock who think he will go between 10-15. If you need a franchise quarterback and he is there when you pick, for me it is no brainer, you pull the trigger. Other people like you apparently think that picking him 5 slots ahead of where he is projected to go is a bad thing. To each his own.

Fairley is a beast and I wouldn't be unhappy if we picked him up. What I would be unhappy with is going into camp with Moore and Clausen as our projected starters with a washed up veteran backup holding a clipboard. Could I live with it for a year?? Only if I knew we had someone like newton coming behind them who has the potential to be a franchise guy.

The rookie scale does change things.

[SOJA]

I'm curious, of what Smitty would think of Cam. Just curious

[grateflday]

I trust the braintrust to do the right thing. From what I know now, after his performance today, the only way I would take him is if we traded down and he fell. I feel he was pressing a little, in fairness. Lotta eyes on him as well as pressure. If I am the GM, the red flags did not go away.

Either Hurney, Rivera, etc will be sold on him and take with the first pick or they will pass all together. If they dont think he will be a franchise QB that wont change if they picked him somewhere else in the top 10. If they trade down it will be because they are not sold on Cam and will be going in a different direction.

[grateflday]

Not taking a QB in the draft doesn't equate to not addressing the QB spot.

My preferred strategy this season is to pick up a vet. We need more experience, not more youth.

Trading for Palmer is probably the best case scenario, though not necessarily the most likely to happen.

I'm in the vet camp as well. If we get some DTs and the O-line stays healthy we can support a rookie QB and even make the playoffs if he plays as well as Bradford, Flacco, or Ryan. But that is unlikely.

I do not think drafting Cam or any QB this year means the Panthers wont be bringing in a Veteran. They are going to be bringing one in no matter what.

[grateflday]

.......... What I would be unhappy with is going into camp with Moore and Clausen as our projected starters with a washed up veteran backup holding a clipboard. Could I live with it for a year?? Only if I knew we had someone like newton coming behind them who has the potential to be a franchise guy.

Hell yeah!! This has been the problem for how many years now??? Every season its been Jake Delhomme or bust, and last year it was even worse. I agree and wouldnt be as pissed off watching another garbage season if I knew at least our QB of the future was on the roster. This franchise has ignored that for waaaayyy to long and now 1/2 the fan base want to continue to pass that down the road for some unknown QB we might be able to get in next years draft :banghead:

[panthers55]

Hell yeah!! This has been the problem for how many years now??? Every season its been Jake Delhomme or bust, and last year it was even worse. I agree and wouldnt be as pissed off watching another garbage season if I knew at least our QB of the future was on the roster. This franchise has ignored that for waaaayyy to long and now 1/2 the fan base want to continue to pass that down the road for some unknown QB we might be able to get in next years draft :banghead:

Or if they don't want an unknown draft pick sometime in the next few years, they clamor for a washed up veteran or career backup like Volek who inspires no confidence at all in me. Guys like Palmer will retire or be in Cincy and guys like McNabb are only worthwhile in a west coast offense which we defintely won't be running. The list of potential free agent Qbs is worse than the list of potential draft picks. Unless they are simply a placeholder for a year or two there are no franchise QBs in free agency that will be available before the draft. None.

And honestly I am sick and tired of not having a quarterback as good as everyone else in the division.

As far as I concerrned Newton is every bit as good or better than Freeman. If you would take Freeman then you should be willing to take Newton as well.

[rayzor]

HOW IS CAM NEWTON IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM AN IMPACT PLAYER THIS YEAR, WHEN THE FIRST 5 STEP DROP HE DID CAME 8 WEEKS AGO! Pull your heads out. Hes not what we want or need.

what makes you think we would need to have him taking snaps from under center the majority of the time for him to do a decent job?

there are a good few teams taking the majority of their snaps from the shotgun and it will be even moreso this coming year.

if the team is convinced that he is the real deal then how could he not be what this team wants or needs?

[TheRealDeal]

We'd have to overhaul our roster to run those types of offenses. We our set up for a run heavy attack with our personnel and would need drastic changes to run a 4 wide, shotgun offense all the time.

[panthers55]

We'd have to overhaul our roster to run those types of offenses. We our set up for a run heavy attack with our personnel and would need drastic changes to run a 4 wide, shotgun offense all the time.

Not true at all. Teams like New Orleans and Indy run regularly out of the shotgun. They just line up the fullback and tailback on either side of the quarterback and run the ball like usual. Other times they use a one back set, 1 TE and 3 wides. The only thing it impacts is play action and honestly that only works when you aren't predictable.

There is no reason we can't run a 22 personnel package from the shotgun because we can run or pass out of that formation. If you send out the back in the flat and use the tight ends as receivers you can still put 3 or 4 potential receivers in the pattern. I serious doubt we will be running that many 4 receivers sets this year. Maybe on third and long or a 2 minute offense.

What it will take are the same players learning new assignments and a new playbook which is going to happen anyway. There is no need for drastic changes.

[TheRealDeal]

Not true at all. Teams like New Orleans and Indy run regularly out of the shotgun. They just line up the fullback and tailback on either side of the quarterback and run the ball like usual. Other times they use a one back set, 1 TE and 3 wides. The only thing it impacts is play action and honestly that only works when you aren't predictable.

There is no reason we can't run a 22 personnel package from the shotgun because we can run or pass out of that formation. If you send out the back in the flat and use the tight ends as receivers you can still put 3 or 4 potential receivers in the pattern. I serious doubt we will be running that many 4 receivers sets this year. Maybe on third and long or a 2 minute offense.

What it will take are the same players learning new assignments and a new playbook which is going to happen anyway. There is no need for drastic changes.

NO and Indy and GB and NE all have more pass catching options than us and lack a good RB. You could almost argue that they are forced to be in the gun due to the lack of talent they have in the backfield. Indy can't run the ball and NE chooses not too, but with their backfield, who could blame them. NO has Pierre, who doesn't compare to either of our 2 RBs and Bush, who was built to be a pass catching RB so that offense suits them. They also have a plethora of pass catching options. GB is the same, almost no running game but a ton of weapons at WR.

Now onto us.

Look at our roster and how bad our Oline struggled with pass protection compared to running the ball. Our line is built to pound the rock not necessarily pass protect.

Our RBs are built to pound the rock, not pass protect or catch passes in the flat, unless you count Goodson but he's so God awful at pass protection he can't be a regular option in the gun unless you permanently move him to the slot.

Our receivers are the main problem. We have Smith, arguably a top 10 receiver when he has a decent QB, fine. Our next best receiver is Gettis who had one good game last year but showed a ton of potential, still doesn't compare to any of those pass happy teams' #2 receiver. On to LaFell, a blocking WR who has stone hands. You can't consistently count on him unless he shores up those drops but some players never do. He was drafted by the old regime to fit the old offense, not to play in a spread. Next is AE, a guy who has never played the position and a person who our own GM said ran out of gas midway through the year. He's going to need to get a lot more fluid to be a viable option in the slot and we don't even know about his hands. Then you have to teach him how to read coverage on the go, which other guys have been doing since college, some HS. It's an uphill climb for him to say the least. TE? Who knows who it will be but with the singing of Shockey it seems he will start. We put an older player there with a lot of experience but someone who has an obviously declining skill set. We don't know enough about Rosario and Barnidge (King is NOT an option) to make a determination but I do like Rosario's potential if he can cure his occasional dropsies.

Then we come to QB. Yes our current crop isn't the greatest in the NFL and we could draft a QB but the teams that are successful with those offenses have top 5 QBs at the helm. Those guys are rare and extremely difficult to find. Manning, Brees, Brady, and Rodgers are the elite of the NFL and really in a class of their own. They are the reason those offenses are successful and other guys aren't really close to their level.

With our plodding Oline, our pounding backs, and lack of receivers, I still see a big overhaul needed on our roster to run that offense, and by the time that happens, I don't see Rivera keeping his job.

Next year we will run the ball but throw the ball more than were used to, and not only on 3rd down. It will be a welcome sight but we won't jump from extreme to extreme.

[panthers55]

NO and Indy and GB and NE all have more pass catching options than us and lack a good RB. You could almost argue that they are forced to be in the gun due to the lack of talent they have in the backfield. Indy can't run the ball and NE chooses not too, but with their backfield, who could blame them. NO has Pierre, who doesn't compare to either of our 2 RBs and Bush, who was built to be a pass catching RB so that offense suits them. They also have a plethora of pass catching options. GB is the same, almost no running game but a ton of weapons at WR.

Now onto us.

Look at our roster and how bad our Oline struggled with pass protection compared to running the ball. Our line is built to pound the rock not necessarily pass protect.

Our RBs are built to pound the rock, not pass protect or catch passes in the flat, unless you count Goodson but he's so God awful at pass protection he can't be a regular option in the gun unless you permanently move him to the slot.

Our receivers are the main problem. We have Smith, arguably a top 10 receiver when he has a decent QB, fine. Our next best receiver is Gettis who had one good game last year but showed a ton of potential, still doesn't compare to any of those pass happy teams' #2 receiver. On to LaFell, a blocking WR who has stone hands. You can't consistently count on him unless he shores up those drops but some players never do. He was drafted by the old regime to fit the old offense, not to play in a spread. Next is AE, a guy who has never played the position and a person who our own GM said ran out of gas midway through the year. He's going to need to get a lot more fluid to be a viable option in the slot and we don't even know about his hands. Then you have to teach him how to read coverage on the go, which other guys have been doing since college, some HS. It's an uphill climb for him to say the least. TE? Who knows who it will be but with the singing of Shockey it seems he will start. We put an older player there with a lot of experience but someone who has an obviously declining skill set. We don't know enough about Rosario and Barnidge (King is NOT an option) to make a determination but I do like Rosario's potential if he can cure his occasional dropsies.

Then we come to QB. Yes our current crop isn't the greatest in the NFL and we could draft a QB but the teams that are successful with those offenses have top 5 QBs at the helm. Those guys are rare and extremely difficult to find. Manning, Brees, Brady, and Rodgers are the elite of the NFL and really in a class of their own. They are the reason those offenses are successful and other guys aren't really close to their level.

With our plodding Oline, our pounding backs, and lack of receivers, I still see a big overhaul needed on our roster to run that offense, and by the time that happens, I don't see Rivera keeping his job.

Next year we will run the ball but throw the ball more than were used to, and not only on 3rd down. It will be a welcome sight but we won't jump from extreme to extreme.

Lets set the record straight with some facts instead of this steady diet of unfounded opinions.

I am going to use primarily 2009 stats with rushing and passing which will give us a better comparison given the multiple injuries to the backs and line this year as well as dismal performance for the offense as a whole.

When New Orleans won the Superbowl they were fifth in rushing in the league in 2009 out of the shotgun. Bush averaged 5.6 yards a carry and Pierre Thomas averaged 5.4 yards per carry which were both better than Williams and Stewart. So yes you can run out of the shotgun. DId we run for more yards? Absolutely we ran for more yards and more big plays. New Orleans passed obviously more than they ran but if you had Drew Brees you would throw the ball 65% of the time as well.

Now onto us. First, your characterizations of our line as slow and plodding as well as much better run blocking versus pass protection is way off the mark.

In 2009 football outsiders ranked us the 17th best run blocking team and the 17th best pass protection team. We gave up 33 sacks of which 5 of them came in 1 game against Philly in the opener. Our power running ranking was a decent 11th but our stuffed ranking was 23rd. Where were we the best? We ranked 1st in second level blocks and first in open field blocks. That means our (supposed slow ploddng linemen) were best getting to the second level and blocking downfield. THat requires speed, athleticism and good TE and receiver blocking as well.

Was the run blocking good overall? The other site I have included looks at runs after contact to determine how much the line contributed and how much was individual effort. (Click on the chart to expand it) Stewart and Williams gained almost 1400 of their yards in 2009 after first contact. Roughly 62% of their yards in 2009 were independent of their offensive line. So no the line is not a primary run blocking line and they arren't slow and plodding suggesting they can pass protect as well as they run block.

http://stats-dont-lie.blogspot.com/2010/01/look-at-yards-gained-after-contact-for.html

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2009

As for the receivers, who knows how good they can be when you have Moore and Clausen throwing the ball in Davidson's offense. We can only hope we have better Qb options and a better game plan. They were all terrible last year but in that offense who wasn't. So to use last year as a barometer as to how this year will go seems a huge waste of time given we don't know what the system wll be.

So to correct your obvious errrors, with our athletic line who can both pass block and run block and our elusive backs who are very good after contact and in the open field, we have a great chance to have a much improved offense. If we can have decent quarterback play, less predictable play calling and a more wide open scheme which plays to our strengths which is to get our playmakers in open space we could significantly improve our offense with only minor changes to our offensive personnel. With Shockey coming on board and using guys like rosario and Barnidge to actually catch the ball we should be more dynamic even with the same wide receivers. Now if we can only figure out how to throw a screen pass and use our backs in the passing game we could improve our offense from 32 to closer to 15 wiithout requiring any kind of major changes.

[Pantherman]

ummm.... I'd take our last 15 years over AZ last 15. Just saying. I mean it's not like we've been suffering all that much. We've made our share of playoffs and made it to a superbowl we should have one. You make a valid point about us needed a big time QB, but it just hasn't happened. We tried with Kerry, and it didn't work.

Talk bad about Panthers decisions if you want, but please spare us the "I'm a poor panther fan who has struggled through all of our horrible seasons" trash. It's just doesn't ring true.

True it didn't work with him. At first it did. Collins came in during first year and did decent. Second year he took the panthers to the NFC Championship game agaist Green Bay and lost that game. Then the next year where it went wrong for him. He got his Jaw broken and had to seat out about 6 weeks. Then in that time he got himself in trouble with the law by Drinking and driving I think. Then he came out of the Jailhouse that night with a cigar in his mouth acting like all badass in front of the cameras and then it went down hill from there. If he never got in trouble then he might had been a better QB then he was. His trouble was the main reason why the panthers released him.