Gross to Eagles or Rams?

[Fan4life]

If they lose Gross and Peppers in the same year I will become a browns fan.....

[Urrymonster]

The more important issue is that people think losing Gross and Peppers will generate cap space.

It doesn't.

Our cap space is calculated on next years contracts. They don't have a contract next year and thus to sign them will redue our cap space further.

[CBDellinger]

Let Gross walk?

bwahahahahahaha...

sofa king we taught ed!

[Cyclonus]

If they lose Gross and Peppers in the same year I will become a browns fan.....

Seriously, am I the only one who sees the irony in this post?

[Panther Boyd]

That's correct, as a legal matter. But if you don't think other teams are having informal conversations with Gross' agent about what they WILL offer once the exclusivity period expires, you're crazy. Gross' agent knows exactly what the market will bear for his client and the Panthers are well aware of that.

Thanks for making that point. I figured everyone else would understand that too. Wrong again I guess.

[Panther Boyd]

The more important issue is that people think losing Gross and Peppers will generate cap space.

It doesn't.

Our cap space is calculated on next years contracts. They don't have a contract next year and thus to sign them will redue our cap space further.

Thanks....that was the answer I was looking for.

[panthersphan]

We better not lose gross ...wtf!!!!

[panthers55]

No we aren't.

Peppers and Gross have no contracts beyond this season.

The projected cap figures calculate contracts for next season.

Therefore that $8 million that has been thrown around is the space we have to sign Gross and Peppers. Luckily Gambles contract and obviously his 'hometown' discount allowed us to immediately create an extra $8-10 million. Therefore we have somewhere between $16-18 million to sign Gross, franchise Pep and subsequently sign free agents and draftees. $16-18 million is not a huge amount if we let them BOTH walk because it would take around $5 million to sign the draftees giving us a whooping $12 million to sign one of those marque players you are thinking of.

Incidently to assume that the ONE game that we played when both were out AUTOMATICALLY means we can reproduce it is just crazy talk. There is a big reason why so many OL are picked in the top 5 and why the LT is one of the highest paid positions. These guys win championships and they are NOT a dime a dozen. When they were both out you have to think back up QB situation, in that the opposition had gameplanned and worked towards one players weaknesses. With a back up in that gets thrown out the window, but as soon as that back up is exposed to a consistent season of playing...they quickly get found out.

For the record we actually struggled mightily with Otah out for those couple of games. Our performance on the right side dipped significantly in the running game.

Gantt wrote about this and said cap space wasn't a problem. In addition to the 8-10 million we already have, Guaranteeing Gamble frees up another 8, Cutting Lucas gives us another 3, Cutting Johnson would give us another 1.6, Cutting or restructuring Lewis gives us 3 more. Then we can extend Delhomme for another year or 2 which would free up another 5 this year, restructure Smitty for another couple and so forth. We could find 25 to 30 million which would be more than enough to sign Gross and Franchise Peppers. If we trade Peppers we would have that 17 million to sign FAs, draft picks and whatever.

[Urrymonster]

Gantt wrote about this and said cap space wasn't a problem. In addition to the 8-10 million we already have, Guaranteeing Gamble frees up another 8, Cutting Lucas gives us another 3, Cutting Johnson would give us another 1.6, Cutting or restructuring Lewis gives us 3 more. Then we can extend Delhomme for another year or 2 which would free up another 5 this year, restructure Smitty for another couple and so forth. We could find 25 to 30 million which would be more than enough to sign Gross and Franchise Peppers. If we trade Peppers we would have that 17 million to sign FAs, draft picks and whatever.

Lol.

Seriously bud. If we did ALL those things then we would ruin ourselves over in a year from now if the CBA is extended. Restructuring does not make cap hits magically go away, it just backloads them even more, which is why we can't restructure Jake. In Jake's instance we can only extend him as he is in the last year of his contract.

Regardless that was not the point I was making. Whilst I am well aware that we can sign them easily - provided we reach agreements - I was commenting that LOSING them both will actually not achieve anything cap wise. People seem to be in the mindset that we will gain cap room by losing Gross and Pep when in actual fact we just lose them. Yes it will cost us to sign them, but like you say we will make room for them and it will work so when essentially gain or lose nothing.

If we make some cuts, to franchise Pep only to trade him later I would rather we did it the natural way of Gamble's contract and our natural space. I would rather refrain from restructuring anyones contracts at the mo, when all we will do is gain space after we trade him. That way we can guarentee we will not be in the same mess year in year out.

[Peppers90 NC]

Ya don't find/get good tackles very often. Lock him up for the rest of his career. There is ZERO reason not to.

Our line wouldn't even being close to being the same with Gross gone, and moving players around.

I agree, offensive line is a unit. No need to fix what isnt broke. I thought protection for most of the season was phenomenal and obviously the run game benefited. DO NOT CHANGE THE CHEMISTRY THERE. I am concerned that there has not been a contract there at this point. He was already franchised last year and the fact they havent worked out a contract is scary b/c we cant franchise him again next year and who is to say we can figure it out by then.

[panthers55]

Lol.

Seriously bud. If we did ALL those things then we would ruin ourselves over in a year from now if the CBA is extended. Restructuring does not make cap hits magically go away, it just backloads them even more, which is why we can't restructure Jake. In Jake's instance we can only extend him as he is in the last year of his contract.

Regardless that was not the point I was making. Whilst I am well aware that we can sign them easily - provided we reach agreements - I was commenting that LOSING them both will actually not achieve anything cap wise. People seem to be in the mindset that we will gain cap room by losing Gross and Pep when in actual fact we just lose them. Yes it will cost us to sign them, but like you say we will make room for them and it will work so when essentially gain or lose nothing.

If we make some cuts, to franchise Pep only to trade him later I would rather we did it the natural way of Gamble's contract and our natural space. I would rather refrain from restructuring anyones contracts at the mo, when all we will do is gain space after we trade him. That way we can guarentee we will not be in the same mess year in year out.

I am not bud and you are wrong about the disasterous effect the moves I suggest would do for our team. Lewis won't even be available until camp if then so cutting him wouldn't hurt us if we can replace him in FA. There is a chance we might be paying him for nothing if he doesn't return. If Lucas gets cut, if would be designated as a June 1 cut so we save the salary and spread the remaining guaranteed money over 2 years. Johnson would be another June 1st cut and restructuring Smitty won't hurt that much since he is well into his contract. In fact the way he is playing extending him a year or two might be pretty smart. If we guarantee some of his previous signing bonus and salary up front it allows us to count it over the life of the extended contract. Then if we make most of any additional money a series of roster bonuses if he is on the team at that point, we reduce our risk and potential dead cap space. Plus it locks him up for the rest of his career.

You are right we will likely extend Jake and lessen the 11 million cap hit. His salary is only half that and we could again make part of it a signing bonus which gets extended over the contract life plus pay any additional money as a roster bonus which wouldn't count unless it is paid out at that point

As for Gross and Peppers, we can't sign Gross and franchise Peppers without clearing roughly 27 million. So we can't do it by Gamble and our natural space. If Peppers gets franchised and teams know we can't get under the cap with his 17 million cap hit, they will just wait until we have to cut him. The only way we have leverage is if we get under the cap with both of them and tell teams that if we don't get a good trade we will keep him. Otherwise people will just low ball us. I am not sure whether we will restructure or not right away, but we better convince other folks that we can and will or the trade for peppers will go no where.

And you are right about the fact that losing them right off the bat won't save any money since neither of them are currently figured in our cap space.

[Urrymonster]

I am not bud and you are wrong about the disasterous effect the moves I suggest would do for our team. Lewis won't even be available until camp if then so cutting him wouldn't hurt us if we can replace him in FA. There is a chance we might be paying him for nothing if he doesn't return. If Lucas gets cut, if would be designated as a June 1 cut so we save the salary and spread the remaining guaranteed money over 2 years. Johnson would be another June 1st cut and restructuring Smitty won't hurt that much since he is well into his contract. In fact the way he is playing extending him a year or two might be pretty smart. If we guarantee some of his previous signing bonus and salary up front it allows us to count it over the life of the extended contract. Then if we make most of any additional money a series of roster bonuses if he is on the team at that point, we reduce our risk and potential dead cap space. Plus it locks him up for the rest of his career.

You are right we will likely extend Jake and lessen the 11 million cap hit. His salary is only half that and we could again make part of it a signing bonus which gets extended over the contract life plus pay any additional money as a roster bonus which wouldn't count unless it is paid out at that point

As for Gross and Peppers, we can't sign Gross and franchise Peppers without clearing roughly 27 million. So we can't do it by Gamble and our natural space. If Peppers gets franchised and teams know we can't get under the cap with his 17 million cap hit, they will just wait until we have to cut him. The only way we have leverage is if we get under the cap with both of them and tell teams that if we don't get a good trade we will keep him. Otherwise people will just low ball us. I am not sure whether we will restructure or not right away, but we better convince other folks that we can and will or the trade for peppers will go no where.

And you are right about the fact that losing them right off the bat won't save any money since neither of them are currently figured in our cap space.

Wo OK. I will remember to not talk about being buds, friends or supporters of the same team. Not sure your reaction was warrented, but enver mind...

Great logic but if I read things correctly the whole June 1st cut stuff simply can't be done due to the situation the CBA is in. It's also impossible to backload contracts now, so we can't extend any contracts past the 2009 season with an increase of over 60% of guarenteed money (could be way off there) from year to year. Thus backloading became a heck of a lot harder than before. Incidently those stats are right off the top of my head as I can't find the article I rea it all in. Will post a link when I find it again.

So essentially many of the moves you suggested are simply not going to happen. The reason I laughed was because you were short of restructuring Ma'ake for completing the cycle of players with over $1million ap hit. Unfortunately football is not that easy, especially when it comes to contracts on someones job.

Now go and chill out a touch, I was not mocking you, merely laughing at the whole situation.

Oh an incidnetly, whilst I imagine Gross will be earning roughly around $10 million a year, his cap hit most certainly will NOT be $10million a year. Your estimated $27million will likely be way off in it's estimation.

[Urrymonster]

I found the things I was looking for...

...With the 2010 season being uncapped, there are special rules governing how much money can be pushed into the future. In reality, a contract like the one listed above is NOT actually valid under the present set of circumstances, since the final year is currently set to be an uncapped season. The contract would not be allowed as it would have specifically violated the league's "30% Rule". The "30% Rule" governs veteran contracts that are entered into in a capped year and extend into the final year of the CBA. The rule states that these contracts cannot have an annual increase of more than 30% of the salary, excluding amounts treated as a signing bonus, provided for in the FINAL CAPPED YEAR. If the CBA is not extended, then 2009 will be the final capped year and this contract would not be valid....

REgarding June 1st cuts

...This is another important benefit that will go out the door if the CBA is not extended. Namely, with no cap in 2010, teams would not have had the luxury of being able to extend this acceleration beyond 2009...

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

This wasn't the source I found before (that was one of the Observer reporters) but it relays the same information so it's accurate in what it says.

[Cat'sGrowl]

I dont see why this is even an issue.

Why havent we signed him yet?

Give the man his money, even if its is a bit of an overpay.

It's not like theres loads of FA talent out there, especially in the Tackle position.

If we lose Gross, it's a downgrade no matter what.

(well, except for the 3 false start penalties a game)