Jenson's OTB: Panthers Source on Edwards, Clausen

[mav1234]

I assume you are looking at the "By Pass Play" area of the splits?

Jimmy had vastly more passes behind the line of scrimmage (23% to 9%). Both quarterbacks had the majority of their passes between 1 and 10 yards (53% for Anderson, 51% for Clausen). However, you can't just look at the percent of their passes that went past 11 yards. Here's why:

Anderson completed a higher percentage (quite a bit higher) of 11-20 yard passes and threw a ton more of them (29% of his passes versus 18% of Jimmy's), but Jimmy actually completed a higher percentage of 21-30 yard passes, even if he threw less of them as a percent of his total(3.6 for Jimmy versus 5 for Anderson). They both completed an equal percentage of 31-44 yard passes and both threw that far only 2% of the time.

To me this does not suggest that Jimmy couldn't run Chuds offense in theory... at least, not based on his arm strength.

[Udogg]

And if we give up a first for Carson Palmer we are worst than the raiders as an organization.

[prowler2k8]

And if we give up a first for Carson Palmer we are worst than the raiders as an organization.

I don't see that happening. Palmer is starting to show mileage and is not worth a #1 pick. More likely a swap of 1st round picks (from #1 to #4) and an addiitional pick (maybe a 4th rounder). We could always throw in Tony Pike as part of a potential trade. Rumor last year was Cinci would've taken him in a heartbeat if he were cut last season and/or placed on the PS.

[Ohio]

We swap firsts and give them a fourth.

And yes, I'd take that deal.

I'm not big on Palmer but he is a major upgrade from Clausen and we could get Green for him to throw too or Fairly/Green/Peterson. If it's there I think we must do it but Mike Brown doesn't trade players who want out.

[CarolinaCatBrigade]

We got DT, I don't care which one, but we are going DT. (IMO).

[MHS831]

I'm not big on Palmer but he is a major upgrade from Clausen and we could get Green for him to throw too or Fairly/Green/Peterson. If it's there I think we must do it but Mike Brown doesn't trade players who want out.

I think 2011 Clausen will be a major upgrade over 2010 Clausen. New staff, fixed oline, DW, JS, MG behind him, a stud TE--he will improve dramatically.

[CRA]

To me this does not suggest that Jimmy couldn't run Chuds offense in theory... at least, not based on his arm strength.

well, what I am looking at his the producton (yards and TDs) that Chud got from passes 10 yards and further downfield. GREAT production. Most of the passnig production came from those throws.

I don't think Clausen can run the offense not b/c he doesn't have the arm strength....but b/c he doesn't have the mindset. He played his rookie year just like he did at ND. He bails on plays too often and it kills plays downfield. OL was not good at ND or Car last year....but Clausen makes bad situations worse w/ his style and habits. You don't have to get to Clausen....you just have to make him nervous and he will force everyone into improv as he does this standard slow scramble right killing plays when he should be in the pocket looking downfield.

[MHS831]

well, what I am looking at his the producton (yards and TDs) that Chud got from passes 10 yards and further downfield. GREAT production. Most of the passnig production came from those throws.

I don't think Clausen can run the offense not b/c he doesn't have the arm strength....but b/c he doesn't have the mindset. He played his rookie year just like he did at ND. He bails on plays too often and it kills plays downfield. OL was not good at ND or Car last year....but Clausen makes bad situations worse w/ his style and habits. You don't have to get to Clausen....you just have to make him nervous and he will force everyone into improv as he does this standard slow scramble right killing plays when he should be in the pocket looking downfield.

That is what bothers me about him. However, his nervousness was justified at both places. We need to solidify the OL and bring in some quality depth. Maybe this is a fixable problem.

[mav1234]

But production isn't only about the quarterback. It's about the players around the quarterback, the scheme, and the coaching.

I don't know how you can still say Clausen doesn't have the arm strength for it. His stats do not support that. He did make some nice deep throws, too, but he rarely went deep... which was likely as much about the staff and players around him (and scheme) as it was himself, though he had a hand in it.

If he doesn't have the "mindset" (confidence?) for it, I'm going to assume that he can't play in anything, because all offenses go deep on occasion. If he can't occasionally stand in the pocket to make deep throws he's not going to get anything done. He did do that rarely for us, but you're right that he broke the pocket and fled pretty often... because he was rattled and getting no protection, and when he did get protection, he just couldn't find an open man.

he didn't get much help, but he still blew. I just have no idea how anyone can say "Clausen can't play in anything but a WCO because he can't throw deep!"... nothing really substantiates that.

[Cyberjag]

You want to know something really interesting about Chud's offense in Cleveland?

Two receivers caught over 90% of the passes thrown to receivers. Just two. We've got three already, and a development project in Edwards.

And mav, people who use "he can throw short" as a reason why someone should be in a WCO just don't understand the WCO. :)

[TheRealDeal]

Is it possible that Clausen is simply best suited for a college offense?

[mav1234]

Is it possible that Clausen is simply best suited for a college offense?

If Clausen fails to succeed in the pros, I don't think it will have to do with the scheme but with Clausen. So... I suppose it is possible that is the case. =P

[CRA]

But production isn't only about the quarterback. It's about the players around the quarterback, the scheme, and the coaching.

I don't know how you can still say Clausen doesn't have the arm strength for it. His stats do not support that. He did make some nice deep throws, too, but he rarely went deep... which was likely as much about the staff and players around him (and scheme) as it was himself, though he had a hand in it.

If he doesn't have the "mindset" (confidence?) for it, I'm going to assume that he can't play in anything, because all offenses go deep on occasion. If he can't occasionally stand in the pocket to make deep throws he's not going to get anything done. He did do that rarely for us, but you're right that he broke the pocket and fled pretty often... because he was rattled and getting no protection, and when he did get protection, he just couldn't find an open man.

he didn't get much help, but he still blew. I just have no idea how anyone can say "Clausen can't play in anything but a WCO because he can't throw deep!"... nothing really substantiates that.

yeah, and I don't think Jimmy fits the schemes (Fox or Rivera).....thus pathetic production. Moore sucked.....Moore sucked b/c he had both good/bad extremes in play not b/c he couldn't make the big plays downfield. Clausen doesn't pass the eyeball test......

I never have made a claim about not having the arm for it. What makes Clausen not a fit is behavior after the snap and the limitations on top of that b/c of his mechanics/size. He kills too many plays and opts to check down....did in college and the pros. He doesn't stay in the pocket and struggles w/ basics. Can't play in a downfield attacking offense and make the throws that way.

Only difference is in college when he killed those plays you can get away w/ more. Too much David Carr in Clausen.....you don't fix that either.

[CRA]

You want to know something really interesting about Chud's offense in Cleveland?

Two receivers caught over 90% of the passes thrown to receivers. Just two. We've got three already, and a development project in Edwards.

And mav, people who use "he can throw short" as a reason why someone should be in a WCO just don't understand the WCO. :)

eh....Winslow was really a reciever in that offense. He went for 1100+ yards that year. It was an offense were TE was a WR.

the reason he should be a WCO QB isn't b/c he can throw short....it is b/c there are too many issues when he is asked to stay in the pocket. Namely he struggles going over the line and staying in long enough for routes to develop or opts to check down.