Lolololol who does this sound like?

[The Saltman]

they did show potential. Didnt see that from clausen though.

[Lumps]

they did show potential. Didnt see that from clausen though.

I don't like this argument, I hear it all the time. None of them weren't playing on the worst team in the NFL when they showed their potential. It is much easier to show potential when your teams budgets isn't the lowest in the NFL, all vets cut, no focus on winning, no/inadequate coaching whatsoever etc etc. How do you show potential when no receiver is open after hiking a ball? How do you show potential when you're still seeing stars from being slaughtered? How much potential can you even utilize with zero coaching from a transition from college to the NFL? How many of you would be great at a salary job with zero proper training?

I just think you guys need a more realistic perspective. Clausen had no coaching worth a poo, the worst team in the NFL etc. Young, Brady none of these QBs played in that type of situation, their's was always a BETTER situation.

You just can't compare seeing potential in Clausen and seeing it from elites, Clausen got the worst of the worst. Under 'Clausen circumstances' and coaching (I feel this is a HUGE part of his play last year) those glimpse of potential you saw from Manning in his first year, would have been much fewer and far in between.

If you want to judge Clausen's potential you have to stick him in a reasonable, realistic circumstance. Not some poor, extreme, unrealistic circumstance he was in last year.

Even Matt Moore couldn't get anywhere under teh circumstances how in the hell do you guys expect so much from a rookie?

[The Saltman]

anything I say will obviously be incorrect in your view point when it comes to jimmy clausen so Ill just stop responding. I agree with what you're saying but when the "experts" tout the guy as being the most Pro ready and him coming out and playing worse than what Alex smith played like in his first year there has to be something there.

[ElkinPanthersFan]

Sounds like Steve Young to me..

[CRA]

Yea he put in the worst performance the NFL has ever seen,

Now how many of these elite Qbs in history played for the worst team in the NFL's history?

If Jimmy had even just an average team, I think his stats would have been appropriate for a rookie.

Not true at all.

LOL, claiming IF Jimmy had an average team...... His D was at least average. His special teams were at least average. His run game at least average. Based off of the production of WRs when Clausen didnt play, they were at least average.

QB touches the ball every snap. Horrible QB and a good QB can easily make a team appear night and day different. Clausen sucked....his team around him was pretty good. Clausen put his teammates in near impossible scenarios by not being able to do basics.

[Lumps]

anything I say will obviously be incorrect in your view point when it comes to jimmy clausen so Ill just stop responding. I agree with what you're saying but when the "experts" tout the guy as being the most Pro ready and him coming out and playing worse than what Alex smith played like in his first year there has to be something there.

It's not about being incorrect or correct. I apologize, I am not trying to come off as a bigot. I just think the problem with the whole argument is everyone tries to compare QBs and stats but disregard coaching, environments and circumstances which I can see, but only up until a certain point.

I agree CRA, Clausen did not look very good, but I didn't expect him to play good. I didn't expect him to be pro ready, maybe that is why my opinion differs so much from everyone else. I didn't expect Clausen to come in right away and win games. I don't listen to the media and hype all I see is a rookie coming on the field to learn and make mistakes, a lot of mistakes. I do have to disagree however that our whole team played average except for Jimmy.

[CRA]

Even Matt Moore couldn't get anywhere under teh circumstances how in the hell do you guys expect so much from a rookie?

Matt Moore only played 14 complete quarters. They were not all bad quarters...he won a game and had the lead in some of those others. That isn't even 1/4th of the quarters in a season.

therefore, this arguement that the Clausen defenders had that since Moore didn't have success than Clausen was doomed doesn't have enough support. Moore had a small handful of bad quarters of play....that is it. Moore crammed so legit play into those 14 quarters as well bad.

Clausen just sucked. He sucked on his own. He sucked for a rookie. It ain't that complicated.

[Lumps]

Clausen just sucked. He sucked on his own. He sucked for a rookie. It ain't that complicated.

Say we draft Newton. He starts or ends up starting early. He sucks, in all aspects. He sucks like Clausen sucks (except has better circumstances), like Young sucked, the stats are comparable, do you find a new QB in 2012?

I already agreed he sucked, but I expected it. You're not curious at all to see what he does with his mistakes? Because that is what matters. Read the original post, those are Clausen stats, but Young did something with his mistakes and became one of the best. But wouldn't you want to know even if it's just for the sake of finding out whether the FO blew a second rounder on a bust? You are not curious at all whatsoever as to how Clausen is going to approach his awful season last year?

My point is a QBs worth ethic and what they do with their mistakes can determine just as much about their potential as game play.

[MHS831]

Chill out with all the Clausen bashing guys, no one here can predict the future. I'm not saying we shouldn't bring in a veteran, we should. Not saying we shouldn't draft an ELITE QB LIKE Luck if we had the chance, we don't. Hell, in 2012 there are looking to be TWO elite QB's, Luck and Kirk Cousins :banghead:

Just saying quit pretending like you know what Clausen's future in the NFL is when the people in San Diego had no idea about Brees' future, Atlanta with Farve, Tampa with Young, and countless others. History says Clausen has a chance, it also says it won't be with us. So chill out and support whoever is on the team. I still remember Clausen getting us into field goal range against the Saints with time expiring but people wanna have selective memories so whatever. I'm not pro Clausen, I'm pro common sense and Panthers football.

Pz bitches

Didn't he also get a year or two with the LA Express? So technically, he was not a rookie then. Check out Elway's numbers as a rookie. 47% completions in 10 starts. 7 TDs vs. 14 Ints. 54 QB rating.

[MHS831]

Say we draft Newton. He starts or ends up starting early. He sucks, in all aspects. He sucks like Clausen sucks (except has better circumstances), like Young sucked, the stats are comparable, do you find a new QB in 2012?.

Good question. Answer? Yes.

[MHS831]

Matt Moore only played 14 complete quarters. They were not all bad quarters...he won a game and had the lead in some of those others. That isn't even 1/4th of the quarters in a season.

therefore, this arguement that the Clausen defenders had that since Moore didn't have success than Clausen was doomed doesn't have enough support. Moore had a small handful of bad quarters of play....that is it. Moore crammed so legit play into those 14 quarters as well bad.

Clausen just sucked. He sucked on his own. He sucked for a rookie. It ain't that complicated.

Matt Moore's QB rating, for the time he played, was lower than Clausen's. I posted the link on another thread. He also was not a rookie, worked with the first team in camp and the preseason, and his line was healthier (Wharton was injured later).

Clausen was a rookie, had 3 reserve OL, and several games had Goodson blocking for him and #1 RB. Davidson started changing things. He had to be confused.

Not that I disagree, but take away all the negatives and you might just have something there. But if you want your rookie, second round QB with rough throwing mechanics to bust, play him behind a scrub right side offensive line and give him a lame duck coach and rookie WRs. That should do it.

[panthers55]

Matt Moore's QB rating, for the time he played, was lower than Clausen's. I posted the link on another thread. He also was not a rookie, worked with the first team in camp and the preseason, and his line was healthier (Wharton was injured later).

Clausen was a rookie, had 3 reserve OL, and several games had Goodson blocking for him and #1 RB. Davidson started changing things. He had to be confused.

Not that I disagree, but take away all the negatives and you might just have something there. But if you want your rookie, second round QB with rough throwing mechanics to bust, play him behind a scrub right side offensive line and give him a lame duck coach and rookie WRs. That should do it.

The bottom line is given all you said, are you comfortable with Clausen being your starter next year and being a potential franchise QB. If you are then taking a veteran for backup and passing on everyone in the draft makes sense. Or if you think he would be the best guy in the draft this year, then you have your guy.

But if you think that if Clausen would rate out perhaps the 4th or 5th guy in the draft this year and there are three guys who are better who you could draft, then you do it. And you get a vet backup in case neither the rookie or Clausen are ready to start.

It doesn't really matter why Clausen sucked last year, he did. The only real question is whether he will be much better this year or not. If you think he will be then you have your answer. If you don't then you can't take the chance to pass on a guy if you are Rivera who has a limited window of opportunity.

Alll the discourse about Moore and Clausen and who was better or worse is all water under the bridge unless you resign Moore. And until there is a CBA we won't know any of that.

[CRA]

Matt Moore's QB rating, for the time he played, was lower than Clausen's. I posted the link on another thread. He also was not a rookie, worked with the first team in camp and the preseason, and his line was healthier (Wharton was injured later).

Clausen was a rookie, had 3 reserve OL, and several games had Goodson blocking for him and #1 RB. Davidson started changing things. He had to be confused.

Not that I disagree, but take away all the negatives and you might just have something there. But if you want your rookie, second round QB with rough throwing mechanics to bust, play him behind a scrub right side offensive line and give him a lame duck coach and rookie WRs. That should do it.

It is a weak and pointless comparison. Moore hardly played vs. A guy who played the bulk of the season. QB rating also is a weak stat do use......if you recall Clausen had a better QB rating than Brees for 95% of the Saints game......that didn't reflect reality. Moore hardly played and it was a night and day mix of inconsistent play. Moore's bad was on him......there were plenty of chances and talent for a QB to have success. That is why Moore was able to get WRs into the end zone despite not playing much......he also missed plenty of chances for other scores.

Too many excuses made for Clausen. He didn't fit. made everyone look worse. You put Clausen in any offense geared around the downfield pass and magically everyone around is gonna look bad. He needs to in a WCO to have a chance.....it ain't then talent around him hay is the issue.

[CRA]

Say we draft Newton. He starts or ends up starting early. He sucks, in all aspects. He sucks like Clausen sucks (except has better circumstances), like Young sucked, the stats are comparable, do you find a new QB in 2012?

I already agreed he sucked, but I expected it. You're not curious at all to see what he does with his mistakes? Because that is what matters. Read the original post, those are Clausen stats, but Young did something with his mistakes and became one of the best. But wouldn't you want to know even if it's just for the sake of finding out whether the FO blew a second rounder on a bust? You are not curious at all whatsoever as to how Clausen is going to approach his awful season last year?

My point is a QBs worth ethic and what they do with their mistakes can determine just as much about their potential as game play.

I don't think it reasonable to suggest a top tier talent sucking like Clausen did...

I expected Clasuen to suck. that was suppose to happen. I would have been fine with that. Clausen however sucked much worse than your standard rookie who wasn't ready......

Those aren't Clausen stats in the OP. Better td int ratio, better win % and Young flat out showed legit play mixed in with the rookie garbage. Young also had a great skill set to build off of.....Clausen is very average with weak intangibles in an offense that plays tom his weaknesses. Just bc a rookie struggled doesn't mean u can compare him to Clausen. The Manning, Aikman, Young comparisons need to stop.