A good and fair article about 1st round QB's

[teeray]

You are running in circles.

So undrafted guys and 2nd rounders with Top 5 talent are the same players and have the same talent right is what you are saying. So why is there such a big difference in starters in the league between 1st rounders and others? If they all have the same talent right?

There is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge disparity in talent going from starters to backups. Huge.

Good. I am glad you said that. So if we have a chance to get a top 10 QB this year you are saying he has a better chance to be franchise QB than one who is not a top ten QB; therefore if we pick a QB next year when we may not be picking in the top 10 aren't we setting ourselves up to get a riskier QB who is not as talented as this year's top QBs??

Que the ,"He wouldn't be a top ten player in any other draft." response.

Ignoring the fact that 6 teams have him #1 overall I am sure he wouldn't be top ten in any other draft.

It sounds like to me you just made a strong case for drafting Newton with your argument. WELCOME ABOARD!!!!! :D:D:D

[panthers55]

You are running in circles.

So undrafted guys and 2nd rounders with Top 5 talent are the same players and have the same talent right is what you are saying. So why is there such a big difference in starters in the league between 1st rounders and others? If they all have the same talent right?

There is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge disparity in talent going from starters to backups. Huge.

No actually you are so consumed with arguing and winning battles of wit as if your reputation is as stake, you continue to throw things on the wall hoping something will stick.

I said that second rounders and later draft picks are not that different in talent level compared to guys in the first round. Correct.

For example I don't think that there is much difference between a Matt Moore picked as an undrafted rookie versus Clausen who was picked in the second round but by many people's standards was a first round talent. The primary difference was game experience.

Do you want to tell me that Brees who was picked in the top of the second round is worse than Brady Quinn who was picked in the first round?

How about Brady? Was he less talented than David Carr who was picked number 1 in the draft??

The NFL is filled with starters who were picked at different rounds in the draft or not at all.

What about Delhomme who was a career backup until he got a chance to start. Was he much less talented than Weinke who was a fourth rounder or Carr who was a first rounder.

Career backups lack talent sometimes, backups who just happen to not be starting can often be as talented or moreso than the starters, they just lack expereince and opportunity.

You think Rodgers was not talented when he backed up Favre and suddenly he got more talented or do you think he was talented all along and just lacked game experience.

And you think I am talking in circles. LOL

[TheRealDeal]

Good. I am glad you said that. So if we have a chance to get a top 10 QB this year you are saying he has a better chance to be franchise QB than one who is not a top ten QB; therefore if we pick a QB next year when we may not be picking in the top 10 aren't we setting ourselves up to get a riskier QB who is not as talented as this year's top QBs??

Que the ,"He wouldn't be a top ten player in any other draft." response.

Ignoring the fact that 6 teams have him #1 overall I am sure he wouldn't be top ten in any other draft.

It sounds like to me you just made a strong case for drafting Newton with your argument. WELCOME ABOARD!!!!! :D:D:D

You are trying really hard to find reasons to draft him now. You know my position on him. If you want to bank your franchise on the smartest kid in this year's short bus then go ahead but ignoring the fact that a bus full of AP students is following should put you on a real short bus.

I don't mind drafting Newton if he is the best player for us. I would be absolutely enraged if we draft him just because he is a QB and a QB is a need.

[jarhead]

The thing about it is any postion can be a bust at number 1.DTs have even a higher bust rate but fans remember the qbs.It comes down to to the intangibles which include heart,dedication,and intestinal fortitude.

[TheRealDeal]

No actually you are so consumed with arguing and winning battles of wit as if your reputation is as stake, you continue to throw things on the wall hoping something will stick.

I said that second rounders and later draft picks are not that different in talent level compared to guys in the first round. Correct.

For example I don't think that there is much difference between a Matt Moore picked as an undrafted rookie versus Clausen who was picked in the second round but by many people's standards was a first round talent. The primary difference was game experience.

Do you want to tell me that Brees who was picked in the top of the second round is worse than Brady Quinn who was picked in the first round?

How about Brady? Was he less talented than David Carr who was picked number 1 in the draft??

The NFL is filled with starters who were picked at different rounds in the draft or not at all.

What about Delhomme who was a career backup until he got a chance to start. Was he much less talented than Weinke who was a fourth rounder or Carr who was a first rounder.

Career backups lack talent sometimes, backups who just happen to not be starting can often be as talented or moreso than the starters, they just lack expereince and opportunity.

You think Rodgers was not talented when he backed up Favre and suddenly he got more talented or do you think he was talented all along and just lacked game experience.

And you think I am talking in circles. LOL

So you are saying we can get someone just as talented in the 5th as we can in the first and all we have to do is let them play and they will be the franchise guy?

[panthers55]

So you are saying we can get someone just as talented in the 5th as we can in the first and all we have to do is let them play and they will be the franchise guy?

There is a big difference between ban we find a guy in the fifth round versus are we likely to find a guy further down in the draft. If we already had our franchise guy and could be afforded the luxury of picking someone later in the draft because we weren't desperate to upgrade, the it would be fine to do that. Given we need a starter and upgrade to Clausen qwe need to look in the first as the article clearly points out

[TheRealDeal]

There is a big difference between ban we find a guy in the fifth round versus are we likely to find a guy further down in the draft. If we already had our franchise guy and could be afforded the luxury of picking someone later in the draft because we weren't desperate to upgrade, the it would be fine to do that. Given we need a starter and upgrade to Clausen qwe need to look in the first as the article clearly points out

But I thought the whole point of your rant was that the talent level is no different?

[panthers55]

So you are saying we can get someone just as talented in the 5th as we can in the first and all we have to do is let them play and they will be the franchise guy?

I think a 5th rounder can be as good as a top 10 guy and if you have years to find that guy you can develop some guys and hope to hit on one. But like the article says, your best chance is with a first rounder especially when the alterbative is Clausen

[TheRealDeal]

I think a 5th rounder can be as good as a top 10 guy and if you have years to find that guy you can develop some guys and hope to hit on one. But like the article says, your best chance is with a first rounder especially when the alterbative is Clausen

Clausen isn't the alternative

[panthers55]

But I thought the whole point of your rant was that the talent level is no different?

I don't rant and my point is that given that even with first rounders the bust rate is 50 percent and with lower rounds it is higher. So to maximize your chances you go with the best guy you can find. Doesn"t mean guys in lower rounds can't be good simply that you need to go with the best odds particularly when you are desperate to upgrade like we are.

[TheRealDeal]

I don't rant and my point is that given that even with first rounders the bust rate is 50 percent and with lower rounds it is higher. So to maximize your chances you go with the best guy you can find. Doesn"t mean guys in lower rounds can't be foos simply that you need to go with the best odds particularly when you are desperate to upgrade like we are.

I wonder what the percentage of reaches turn out to be busts. Certain years guys are widely considered the #1 pick. Other years, like this one, it is hotly debated. I'd like to see the percentage of QBs that were picked way ahead of where they were generally thought of going and what their "bust rate" is. I would think it accounts for most of the busts but I'm just guessing. It would be an interesting analysis since I think everyone here can agree that Cam is a big risk and if we take him at one it will be a reach.

[teeray]

I wonder what the percentage of reaches turn out to be busts. Certain years guys are widely considered the #1 pick. Other years, like this one, it is hotly debated. I'd like to see the percentage of QBs that were picked way ahead of where they were generally thought of going and what their "bust rate" is. I would think it accounts for most of the busts but I'm just guessing. It would be an interesting analysis since I think everyone here can agree that Cam is a big risk and if we take him at one it will be a reach.

Many considered Philip Rivers, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Josh Freeman, all were reaches.

And yet the people rated highly that slid and were "great values" have been the busts. Quinn, Leinart, and Clausen come to mind.

it likely doesn't make a lick of difference when you are talking about top 20 talents.

[TheRealDeal]

Many considered Philip Rivers, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Josh Freeman, all were reaches.

And yet the people rated highly that slid and were "great values" have been the busts. Quinn, Leinart, and Clausen come to mind.

it likely doesn't make a lick of difference when you are talking about top 20 talents.

Disagree, again.

Just becauase Cam is a 20 talent and you want us to take him at 1, doesn't mean there isn't a difference.

[teeray]

Disagree, again.

Just becauase Cam is a 20 talent and you want us to take him at 1, doesn't mean there isn't a difference.

I meant the difference between them becoming successful or failing. Guys overreaching slightly doesn't effect whether they are successful or not.

If the Panthers won't be drastically overreahing, if they determine him to be a franchise QB potential it doesn't matter where he is ranked