Panthers NFC South Champs!

[kungfoodude]

37 minutes ago, CarolinaLivin said:

I agree with everything except “our offense is loaded”. Too soon for me to say that, but OFF is trending up and should be fun to watch on sunday’s. 

Yeah, loades is a little bit of a leap. It COULD be loaded.

[MHS831]

Here is how I do it--consider that most teams improve (at least on paper) each year:

QB:  Can we say we improved here?  Bryce is trending up and we got him 3 weapons and no more protection.  WASH

RB:  Adding Dowdy and Eteinne is a pretty significant upgrade.  UPGRADE

TE: Adding a large TE with good hands and initial quickness over Thomas.  Tremble and Sanders should improve.   UPGRADE.

OT: Ickey is improving each season and Moton (we hope) will be healed up and ready to go.  WASH

OG:  No changes WASH

C  : No changes WASH

WR: Added the best WR in the draft, one that other teams tried to trade up to get.  Added Horn, and the Colorado WRs were scary good (making Shedeur look good).  XL and Coker will improve.  Lots to like.  UPGRADE

In my view, we needed to upgrade WR, TE, and RB.  We did.  I am guessing that C and OT are on the table to be upgraded in 2026.

Edge:  Nic and Princely replace Barno and Johnson and join Clowney, Wonnum, and Jones.  Strong room.  Biggest Need.  UPGRADE

DL:  We get Brown back, so upgrade without doing another thing.  Wharton, Brown III are both upgrades.  Cam Jackson as a rookie NT---depth and size we did not have.  UPGRADE

LB:  We added Rozenboom in free agency, and he was a decent addition.  I think we will add an UDFA.  I think our LB play will improve with better edge, DL, and S play.  SLIGHT UPGRADE

CB: Horn and Jackson are back, both following their best seasons.  We added a CB (Devonshire) off the waiver wire and there are a few UDFAs who could actually make the team.  WASH

S: Ransom and Moehrig will probably start, with Richardson and (maybe Nick Scott) as depth.  I think we are going to like these Safeties. UPGRADE

We had desperate needs for Edge players, IDL, and Safeties.  We upgraded them all.  I am not happy with the ILB situation or CB depth.

Special Teams:  Too early to tell.

BASICALLY, ON OFFENSE WE UPGRADED WEAPONS IN 3 AREAS WITH 4 PLAYERS.  THE OL IS UNCHANGED.

ON DEFENSE, WE UPGRADED DE, NT EDGE, AND S--4 AREAS WITH 4 DRAFT PICKS (edge, edge, safety, and nose) and  5 FREE AGENTS (nose, defensive end/DT, edge, corner, safety)  THAT IS A HUGE OVERHAUL, with starters at DE (2), NT, OLB Edge, and Safety--a total of 6 of 11 players who did not play last season (including D. Brown).

We won 5 games last season.  I think we can win 8.5 if all goes well.

[thennek]

Losing Derrick Brown last year was devasting to the defense, however, I also think losing Luvu was too.  I like the focus on the D-line during free agency and the draft, however, I would like to see the Panthers pick up a few more LB to battle it out during camp.  I still don't think this is a position of strength.  

[jfra78]

38 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Here is how I do it--consider that most teams improve (at least on paper) each year:

QB:  Can we say we improved here?  Bryce is trending up and we got him 3 weapons and no more protection.  WASH

RB:  Adding Dowdy and Eteinne is a pretty significant upgrade.  UPGRADE

TE: Adding a large TE with good hands and initial quickness over Thomas.  Tremble and Sanders should improve.   UPGRADE.

OT: Ickey is improving each season and Moton (we hope) will be healed up and ready to go.  WASH

OG:  No changes WASH

C  : No changes WASH

WR: Added the best WR in the draft, one that other teams tried to trade up to get.  Added Horn, and the Colorado WRs were scary good (making Shedeur look good).  XL and Coker will improve.  Lots to like.  UPGRADE

In my view, we needed to upgrade WR, TE, and RB.  We did.  I am guessing that C and OT are on the table to be upgraded in 2026.

Edge:  Nic and Princely replace Barno and Johnson and join Clowney, Wonnum, and Jones.  Strong room.  Biggest Need.  UPGRADE

DL:  We get Brown back, so upgrade without doing another thing.  Wharton, Brown III are both upgrades.  Cam Jackson as a rookie NT---depth and size we did not have.  UPGRADE

LB:  We added Rozenboom in free agency, and he was a decent addition.  I think we will add an UDFA.  I think our LB play will improve with better edge, DL, and S play.  SLIGHT UPGRADE

CB: Horn and Jackson are back, both following their best seasons.  We added a CB (Devonshire) off the waiver wire and there are a few UDFAs who could actually make the team.  WASH

S: Ransom and Moehrig will probably start, with Richardson and (maybe Nick Scott) as depth.  I think we are going to like these Safeties. UPGRADE

We had desperate needs for Edge players, IDL, and Safeties.  We upgraded them all.  I am not happy with the ILB situation or CB depth.

Special Teams:  Too early to tell.

BASICALLY, ON OFFENSE WE UPGRADED WEAPONS IN 3 AREAS WITH 4 PLAYERS.  THE OL IS UNCHANGED.

ON DEFENSE, WE UPGRADED DE, NT EDGE, AND S--4 AREAS WITH 4 DRAFT PICKS (edge, edge, safety, and nose) and  5 FREE AGENTS (nose, defensive end/DT, edge, corner, safety)  THAT IS A HUGE OVERHAUL, with starters at DE (2), NT, OLB Edge, and Safety--a total of 6 of 11 players who did not play last season (including D. Brown).

We won 5 games last season.  I think we can win 8.5 if all goes well.

Who we gonna tie with?

[tukafan21]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, loades is a little bit of a leap. It COULD be loaded.

I like to look at it as we have our offensive skill positions of the future set in place, IF they pan out like we think/expect them to, as we won't need to address those positions (outside of backups) for at least 5 years pending cap issues.

QB: Bryce

RB: Chuba/Brooks/Etienne

WR: T-Mac/XL/Coker

TE: Sanders

If these guys become the players we think they can become, putting aside being able to find a way to afford them all, that grouping has potential to be one of the best offensive groupings in the league in 3 years from now.

Yea, it all hinges on Bryce becoming that guy, but there is a crazy amount of potential in that group, and Chuba at 4 years of experience is the vet by a country mile as even Bryce is the only one there with more than 1 year of experience and he only has 2 himself.

Edited 3 hours ago by tukafan21

[kungfoodude]

39 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I like to look at it as we have our offensive skill positions of the future set in place, IF they pan out like we think/expect them to, as we won't need to address those positions (outside of backups) for at least 5 years pending cap issues.

QB: Bryce

RB: Chuba/Brooks/Etienne

WR: T-Mac/XL/Coker

TE: Sanders

If these guys become the players we think they can become, putting aside being able to find a way to afford them all, that grouping has potential to be one of the best offensive groupings in the league in 3 years from now.

Yea, it all hinges on Bryce becoming that guy, but there is a crazy amount of potential in that group, and Chuba at 4 years of experience is the vet by a country mile as even Bryce is the only one there with more than 1 year of experience and he only has 2 himself.

Yeah but our recent history is probably less than a 20% "panning out" rate on Rounds 1-3. I am firmly in the prove it stage as far as that goes. Don't get me wrong, I like some of the guys we drafted a lot but I still need to see them develop and produce.

[tukafan21]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but our recent history is probably less than a 20% "panning out" rate on Rounds 1-3. I am firmly in the prove it stage as far as that goes. Don't get me wrong, I like some of the guys we drafted a lot but I still need to see them develop and produce.

Totally agree, BUT..........

I do think what we've already seen out of XL, Coker, and Sanders in year 1 is better than what we saw out of our past skill position picks that haven't panned out, KB's rookie year as the outlier.  Especially since adding T-Mac pushes all 3 of them down in the pecking order and in turn, makes them a better player for the role they'll be taking on.

Chuba has shown he can be a legit back and obviously, I'm as confident as anyone can ever be about a player panning out as I am with T-Mac.

Nothing is guaranteed, but I really do think we've finally brought the right guys in and we're looking at our future offensive weapons already on the roster, it all hinges on Bryce thought of course.

Edited 2 hours ago by tukafan21

[CRA]

I say about 7ish wins.  Give or take. 

I think the Panthers are still fundamentally in no mans land on offense where the QB doesn't match the playcaller/talent. 

I think the D moves from horrible to average. 

[UnluckyforSome]

Now, now. We still have Camp Crush season to go, and all the unrealistic expectations and unrealized flashes of potential that go with it to influence our better judgements. 

Don't forget about the preseason being a magical time when dreams come true.

[kungfoodude]

32 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Totally agree, BUT..........

I do think what we've already seen out of XL, Coker, and Sanders in year 1 is better than what we saw out of our past skill position picks that haven't panned out, KB's rookie year as the outlier.  Especially since adding T-Mac pushes all 3 of them down in the pecking order and in turn, makes them a better player for the role they'll be taking on.

Chuba has shown he can be a legit back and obviously, I'm as confident as anyone can ever be about a player panning out as I am with T-Mac.

Nothing is guaranteed, but I really do think we've finally brought the right guys in and we're looking at our future offensive weapons already on the roster, it all hinges on Bryce thought of course.

I mean, I just have to agree to disagree. XL did not look good at all. Coker was great but I guess we need to see if he develops into a real, long term top 3 WR or not. I have hope for him. Sanders is hard to say. Started terrible, turned around quickly and then post scary injury he just disappeared. Really hard to get a read on him.

RB I am not worried about. But that's not really a position I ever really worry about. You should ALWAYS be able to plug in a capable back for a decent deal. 

I would say that our roster is predominantly questions and not answers. Let's hope the 2026 offseason is more answers than questions.

[frankw]

I am feeling optimistic for sure. But at this point in time in Panthers fandom talk is cheap and seeing is believing.

[kungfoodude]

20 minutes ago, frankw said:

I am feeling optimistic for sure. But at this point in time in Panthers fandom talk is cheap and seeing is believing.

Yeah, I am not getting fooled by these builds and rebuilds again. Show it on the field, make me a believer in this version of the vision.

[tukafan21]

49 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, I just have to agree to disagree. XL did not look good at all. Coker was great but I guess we need to see if he develops into a real, long term top 3 WR or not. I have hope for him. Sanders is hard to say. Started terrible, turned around quickly and then post scary injury he just disappeared. Really hard to get a read on him.

RB I am not worried about. But that's not really a position I ever really worry about. You should ALWAYS be able to plug in a capable back for a decent deal. 

I would say that our roster is predominantly questions and not answers. Let's hope the 2026 offseason is more answers than questions.

I think taking T-Mac changes how to look at XL and the season he had, especially in retrospect.

If you look at his rookie season from the viewpoint of "we traded into the 1st round to take him as our #1 WR of the future" then yea, he had a god awful rookie season and I'd be scared about his future.  But we've now drafted T-Mac, it allows us to now go back and look at XL's rookie season in a totally different light.

XL was a late bloomer, essentially having only one college season of experience, he was always going to be VERY raw last year.  If we knew at the time that one year later, we'd have a true #1 and XL "only needs to be a future #2 and potentially doing it from a power slot position" then I'm not so sure he had all that bad of a rookie season.

Because he still had 49 catches for 500 yards and 4 TDs, which really is a pretty darn good rookie season for a player as raw as XL was/is, especially when you consider the QB struggles we had last year, and even once Bryce turned things around a bit, we were still a run based team and Bryce's stats were anything but mind-blowing.  

Personally, I think it's one of those situations where people are too focused on the negatives with XL and not seeing all the positives and potential he has given how raw he still is.  Which is where viewing him as a future #2 vs #1 makes all the difference in the world in looking back on his rookie season and projecting his future role/ability.

If he's worked on his craft and cuts back on his drops, it's very reasonable to think he could be a 70 catch, 800 yards, and 5 TD type of player for us in year 3 when he's the #2 after Thielen is gone.

How many teams have that type of talent as their #2 WR behind a guy putting up 1,200+ and 10 on a yearly basis as their #1 as I fully expect T-Mac to be doing?

Then if Coker also improves slightly and is kicking in 600-700 yards himself, then you've built yourself a Top 5 WR room.

Edited 47 minutes ago by tukafan21

[kungfoodude]

26 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I think taking T-Mac changes how to look at XL and the season he had, especially in retrospect.

If you look at his rookie season from the viewpoint of "we traded into the 1st round to take him as our #1 WR of the future" then yea, he had a god awful rookie season and I'd be scared about his future.  But we've now drafted T-Mac, it allows us to now go back and look at XL's rookie season in a totally different light.

XL was a late bloomer, essentially having only one college season of experience, he was always going to be VERY raw last year.  If we knew at the time that one year later, we'd have a true #1 and XL "only needs to be a future #2 and potentially doing it from a power slot position" then I'm not so sure he had all that bad of a rookie season.

Because he still had 49 catches for 500 yards and 4 TDs, which really is a pretty darn good rookie season for a player as raw as XL was/is, especially when you consider the QB struggles we had last year, and even once Bryce turned things around a bit, we were still a run based team and Bryce's stats were anything but mind-blowing.  

Personally, I think it's one of those situations where people are too focused on the negatives with XL and not seeing all the positives and potential he has given how raw he still is.  Which is where viewing him as a future #2 vs #1 makes all the difference in the world in looking back on his rookie season and projecting his future role/ability.

If he's worked on his craft and cuts back on his drops, it's very reasonable to think he could be a 70 catch, 800 yards, and 5 TD type of player for us in year 3 when he's the #2 after Thielen is gone.

How many teams have that type of talent as their #2 WR behind a guy putting up 1,200+ and 10 on a yearly basis as their #1 as I fully expect T-Mac to be doing?

Then if Coker also improves slightly and is kicking in 600-700 yards himself, then you've built yourself a Top 5 WR room.

Yeah but jumping up in the draft to get a project #2/3 WR is just plain not smart. I am down on XL because the thought was that he could be a potential #1 WR and he has been anything but that so far. Also, the idea of him as a slot is even more upsetting because you pass on several more productive slot guys(McConkey being the most obvious) that were TREMENDOUSLY more NFL ready.

I was not a fan of the XL move at the time and I am not a fan of the decision in short term hindsight either. He is just simply going to have to be a guy that proves it on the field to me.

McMillian was my #1 WR in this draft and I was a pro-McMillian guy. However, he isn't gonna get treated with baby gloves either. We are in the era of rookie WR's putting up 1k+ yd seasons with regularity. He's going to(barring injury) have to be one of the top 2 or 3 WR's in this class in terms of production. And that's being very generous to him. He really needs to be THE guy from this class. It isn't like he is gonna have a lot of guys taking catches away from him.