Charlie Campbell (who has correctly predicted Panthers 1st round pick the past 6 years) final mock draft

[Shotgun]

7 hours ago, La Pantera said:

I’d buy it… if we ever ran a smoke screen. Normally we pick the “rumored “ player,

but I guess there’s a first time for everything.

Would almost guarantee that the "smoke screen" player would become a hall of famer. lol  

[CPcavedweller]

3 hours ago, TD alt said:

I'm not against taking Warren (though some are). I could totally understand it. That would be a matter of philosophy. But if Walker is still available and we take Williams...oh,boy.

I know I’m not getting any individual or philosophy I want in this draft and that’s fine, as that’s been my experience as a Panthers fan. If Graham falls I’d like the Panthers to take him and then take Josiah Stewart in the third round. Perhaps pick up Xavier Restrepo in the 4th and a burner in the 2nd. 
 

I still believe our team will be better suited by taking Warren though. Our defense cannot be as bad as it was last year and there isn’t a huge gap in defensive talent in the first three rounds of this draft. 

[CPcavedweller]

12 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

Would almost guarantee that the "smoke screen" player would become a hall of famer. lol  

Taking an inside linebacker at 8 would be a good plan, historically. 

[CRA]

34 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

I know I’m not getting any individual or philosophy I want in this draft and that’s fine, as that’s been my experience as a Panthers fan. If Graham falls I’d like the Panthers to take him and then take Josiah Stewart in the third round. Perhaps pick up Xavier Restrepo in the 4th and a burner in the 2nd. 
 

I still believe our team will be better suited by taking Warren though. Our defense cannot be as bad as it was last year and there isn’t a huge gap in defensive talent in the first three rounds of this draft. 

I agree with a lot of this.   Lot of that front 7 D talent on this draft is pretty comparable.   Top of this draft IMO is actually really weak there.   It’s why I never took Jeanty and Warren off my board despite the fact they in theory should be off.  

I mean, we are going to draft a pass rusher in the top 10 whose career season high was 5 sacks?  That doesn’t make it move.  Not even a little. 

[Icege]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

yeah, but Horn also highlights why he was such a bad pick (not bad player).   The cupboard was bare.....and we spent a top 10 pick on a dude who overall, didn't play a valuable enough position given all of our needs and holes (not to mention his health).   

as for the rest? Yeah, they have all shown various degrees of growth (well, maybe not XL yet).  But I can acknowledge their growth and still say all those......questions.....are still in play that were there when we drafted them.   I don't think whatever rocky road Icky or Bryce has taken so far....doesn't change the fact there were safer options.  And those questions still remain for all I mentioned.  Icky is still a run block leaning LT.  Bryce is still a historical anomaly that hasn't silenced that.  

I still like the Marty approach.  Go for the surest bet possible 95% of the time in the first round. 

Horn does not highlight that at all nor is the reason provided is an accurate representation of the situation then (imo). Yes, there were a ton of holes on the roster but CB is considered to be one of the five premiere positions in football (along with QB, WR, OT, and EDGE). The claim that the position isn't valuable is provably false here.

We can also see who was available that plays in one of those "pillar" positions: Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Devonta Smith, Rashawn Slater, Micah Parsons, and Patrick Surtain II. After sending draft picks to NYJ for Darnold it wouldn't have made much sense to then spend #8 on a QB (and seeing as how both of those panned out, that was the right move). Micah was an LB that could rush the passer and folks were questioning whether or not he'd be able to do that in the NFL (plus the Panthers had Burns under contract and had just spent a second-round pick on YGM the prior draft). Smith was an option but DJ Moore was WR1 at the time and Chosen had been brought in to be WR2. That left Horn, Surtain II, and Slater. I was high on Slater at the time, but understood the impact that a lockdown CB1 could bring.

Regarding Jaycee's health: it's a fool's errand to gaslight ourselves into believing that he was going to get hurt no matter what and that Surtain II would've played just as well in Carolina (or remained healthy). That's so far removed from reality that the only people concerning themselves with it at this point just want find excuses to be upset.

Sure, Stroud was a safer option based on measurables and had a great rookie season when surrounded by more talent but we also saw him struggle last season when he had just a sample of what Bryce experienced his rookie year. But Icky? Evan Neal was considered the can't miss prospect and was drafted right after Icky was. It's clear as day which one panned out. Giants fans would've been over the moon for Neal to have followed Young's career arc so far. Worth noting that Charles Cross was in talks as well. The emphasis on Cross though was always that he had great technique but didn't have Neal's measurables nor Icky's ruthlessness.

It's perfectly fair to have questions about the selections, but it also isn't fair to continue to ask questions that have been answered just because we don't like said answers. Jaycee Horn is seen as a premiere CB by the team and opponents even though he missed significant time during his rookie deal. Ikem Ekwonu is a reliable LT that has shown clear development and that he belongs in the NFL despite being a run-blocking specialist that has had an unstable coaching environment. When Bryce came back from the benching, he was throwing those deep balls that haters said he was physically incapable of throwing and leading the offense on scoring drives that put the team in position to win if not for the defensive collapses. At some point, we have to ask ourselves if those worries/concerns that we as fans have are really the deal breakers that we're afraid they are.

I appreciated Marty's ability to hit on guys in the first-round, but I will take a GM that can find quality talent in the other six rounds any day of the week. Is Dan the one to do that? Only way we're going to find out is by hurrying up and waiting for the season to get here so we can see how this draft class looks and previous ones develop.

Speaking of hurrying up and waiting... maaaan... I am not looking forward to the upcoming dead spell from post-draft through training camp! Especially with the recent news about fans not being at camp... those beat writers had better give us our fix come August.

 

*wall of text crits for 9999dmg*

Edited 5 hours ago by Icege

[MHS831]

Emmanwori is a stud.  sub 4.4 big, smart, versatile. He and Moehrig would make the defense scary.   If we trade back, I hope they take him. 

[MHS831]

What about 7 years ago, Special Juan?  What about that?

[PootieNunu]

5 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Emmanwori is a stud.  sub 4.4 big, smart, versatile. He and Moehrig would make the defense scary.   If we trade back, I hope they take him. 

I really think he is the main target with a planned trade up to grab an edge late first or early 2nd.

[Captain Morgan]

15 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Emmanwori is a stud.  sub 4.4 big, smart, versatile. He and Moehrig would make the defense scary.   If we trade back, I hope they take him. 

I want him so bad I can't stand it.  But if we move back we'd have to consider Golden.

[CRA]

54 minutes ago, Icege said:

Horn does not highlight that at all nor is the reason provided is an accurate representation of the situation then (imo). Yes, there were a ton of holes on the roster but CB is considered to be one of the five premiere positions in football (along with QB, WR, OT, and EDGE). The claim that the position isn't valuable is provably false here.

We can also see who was available that plays in one of those "pillar" positions: Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Devonta Smith, Rashawn Slater, Micah Parsons, and Patrick Surtain II. After sending draft picks to NYJ for Darnold it wouldn't have made much sense to then spend #8 on a QB (and seeing as how both of those panned out, that was the right move). Micah was an LB that could rush the passer and folks were questioning whether or not he'd be able to do that in the NFL (plus the Panthers had Burns under contract and had just spent a second-round pick on YGM the prior draft). Smith was an option but DJ Moore was WR1 at the time and Chosen had been brought in to be WR2. That left Horn, Surtain II, and Slater. I was high on Slater at the time, but understood the impact that a lockdown CB1 could bring.

Regarding Jaycee's health: it's a fool's errand to gaslight ourselves into believing that he was going to get hurt no matter what and that Surtain II would've played just as well in Carolina (or remained healthy). That's so far removed from reality that the only people concerning themselves with it at this point just want find excuses to be upset.

Sure, Stroud was a safer option based on measurables and had a great rookie season when surrounded by more talent but we also saw him struggle last season when he had just a sample of what Bryce experienced his rookie year. But Icky? Evan Neal was considered the can't miss prospect and was drafted right after Icky was. It's clear as day which one panned out. Giants fans would've been over the moon for Neal to have followed Young's career arc so far. Worth noting that Charles Cross was in talks as well. The emphasis on Cross though was always that he had great technique but didn't have Neal's measurables nor Icky's ruthlessness.

It's perfectly fair to have questions about the selections, but it also isn't fair to continue to ask questions that have been answered just because we don't like said answers. Jaycee Horn is seen as a premiere CB by the team and opponents even though he missed significant time during his rookie deal. Ikem Ekwonu is a reliable LT that has shown clear development and that he belongs in the NFL despite being a run-blocking specialist that has had an unstable coaching environment. When Bryce came back from the benching, he was throwing those deep balls that haters said he was physically incapable of throwing and leading the offense on scoring drives that put the team in position to win if not for the defensive collapses. At some point, we have to ask ourselves if those worries/concerns that we as fans have are really the deal breakers that we're afraid they are.

I appreciated Marty's ability to hit on guys in the first-round, but I will take a GM that can find quality talent in the other six rounds any day of the week. Is Dan the one to do that? Only way we're going to find out is by hurrying up and waiting for the season to get here so we can see how this draft class looks and previous ones develop.

Speaking of hurrying up and waiting... maaaan... I am not looking forward to the upcoming dead spell from post-draft through training camp! Especially with the recent news about fans not being at camp... those beat writers had better give us our fix come August.

 

*wall of text crits for 9999dmg*

Well, we could bump old threads and plenty agreed at the time…..a team with the holes we had and our trajectory going forward didn’t really need to draft a handsy man corner with a top 10 pick.  It just isn’t that impactful vs other spots/aspects like investing in a pass rush or a passing game when you have neither.   

Jayce Horn doesn’t have the work put in to have the title of premier DB.  Health is likely a reason.  Maybe the reason.  But to be a premier corner you have to of actually put in the work and have the resume vs the QB/WRs on Sunday.  

Do I think he is a top corner if healthy? Probably.  Still think it was a bad pick given what we were and a bad extension given his health/availability.   I’m not betting on him turning into an iron man corner because we paid him.  He gets hurt week 1 and not a soul on this board will be shocked.   Health is weird.  Some dudes just can’t stay healthy.  Some are iron men.  The unexplainable is what it is of sports.  I concede the Panthers got forced into a spot with that where they were forced to overpay 

[TD alt]

3 hours ago, CRA said:

I agree with a lot of this.   Lot of that front 7 D talent on this draft is pretty comparable.   Top of this draft IMO is actually really weak there.   It’s why I never took Jeanty and Warren off my board despite the fact they in theory should be off.  

I mean, we are going to draft a pass rusher in the top 10 whose career season high was 5 sacks?  That doesn’t make it move.  Not even a little. 

Yeah, I get it, but Jalon Walker might make a pretty good MLB, even without the sacks. As a Georgia alum, I don't know that he'll be a sack artist, but I believe that his ceiling is a great 'backer. You never know though. He has some skills.

I don't know, I still think that we should trade back, unless Mason Graham slides to us. I love my Dawgs, but I kinda suspect Green may be the best EDGE, though not the best person. I don't know how that squares with what we're looking for. 

[ForJimmy]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Emmanwori is a stud.  sub 4.4 big, smart, versatile. He and Moehrig would make the defense scary.   If we trade back, I hope they take him. 

I kind of like Starks in a trade back 

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

I kind of like Starks in a trade back 

Lotta people have him as the #1 S

[Jon Snow]

Just now, MHS831 said:

Lotta people have him as the #1 S

Depends on what you are looking for. There's a reason they both are day 1 selections. I think Starks would be a better fit for the Panthers but they apparently think Emmanwori is the best fit.