Can Cam be coached to be a NFL QB?

[MadHatter]

I think most people understand this. The people who seem confused are the ones who believe that coming from a spread offense is a distinct disadvantage to guys going to the NFL. Since there are more spread offense than traditional ones in the college ranks, it would mean that the majority of quarterbacks have s steep learning curve.

But if you think that Newton came from a run scheme offense and can't stand in the pocket then you are confused.

I think a lot of the issues that people have with spread offense QB's is that most of them did not have the very strong arm. The spread offense was geared around short timing routes.

Again, this is stereotyping, but just some of the things I saw.

[MHS831]

Clearly he wasn't, and I don't think anyone actually said that, much less believed it.

I heard that he was, but ND was not a good place to develop, even with Weiss there. He was constantly running (poor line) and has never really known the security of trusting the pocket. That is his biggest drawback, something many people don't realize by looking at his collective works as a Panther.

Davidson had him throwing the quick hitch, tried the three step drop with quick release, etc. because the protection was not there. When Clausen could drop back, was protected, and had a man open downfield, he was rather accurate. He was rarely afforded the time or given the opportuniy to do this. He was coached to protect the ball, don't throw ints, etc. instead of attacking the D.

If people are patient, you will see Clausen emerge as a good QB. He may have to have another rookie season in 2011, but he has the physical tools. Sure Newton's physical tools are better, but he is a high risk candidate and you are comparing a first overall pick to the 48th overall pick.

Damn if these two don't remind me of the Jamarcus Russell/Brady Quinn debate that raged on several years ago.

[ncbobcat]

I keep reading that he was from a very vanilla offense (2 reads) at AU. Nobody can question the guy is a great athlete, but that does not mean he'll be a great QB? I don't know, but I certainly don't want another QB project, especially with dire needs at a couple other postitions.

[rico6]

I keep reading that he was from a very vanilla offense (2 reads) at AU. Nobody can question the guy is a great athlete, but that does not mean he'll be a great QB? I don't know, but I certainly don't want another QB project, especially with dire needs at a couple other postitions.

To be honest, man. The QB position is the most dire need for this right now.

[panthers55]

I think a lot of the issues that people have with spread offense QB's is that most of them did not have the very strong arm. The spread offense was geared around short timing routes.

Again, this is stereotyping, but just some of the things I saw.

It is true that quarterbacks without great arms typically do better in spread offenses and WCOs. But the fallacy is that you can't say that because they come from a spread or WCO they must not have strong arms.

[MadHatter]

It is true that quarterbacks without great arms typically do better in spread offenses and WCOs. But the fallacy is that you can't say that because they come from a spread or WCO they must not have strong arms.

Agreed....and that was not what I meant.

I was making a point that a large % of the QB's that have come out of the spread did not have the strong arms.

Not that all QB's in a spread offense had weak arms.

[panthers55]

I heard that he was, but ND was not a good place to develop, even with Weiss there. He was constantly running (poor line) and has never really known the security of trusting the pocket. That is his biggest drawback, something many people don't realize by looking at his collective works as a Panther.

Davidson had him throwing the quick hitch, tried the three step drop with quick release, etc. because the protection was not there. When Clausen could drop back, was protected, and had a man open downfield, he was rather accurate. He was rarely afforded the time or given the opportuniy to do this. He was coached to protect the ball, don't throw ints, etc. instead of attacking the D.

If people are patient, you will see Clausen emerge as a good QB. He may have to have another rookie season in 2011, but he has the physical tools. Sure Newton's physical tools are better, but he is a high risk candidate and you are comparing a first overall pick to the 48th overall pick.

Damn if these two don't remind me of the Jamarcus Russell/Brady Quinn debate that raged on several years ago.

I swear you must be Clausen's press agent. Because only he would use the term accurate and Clausen in the same sentence. I won't go back and forth a 1000 posts since this has been beaten up ad nauseum but Ints are not used in isolation but as a ratio to TDs. His .333 average was abysmal considering the desired ratio is somewhere around 1.5.

As for accuracy given time, his completion rates on intermediate and deep routes was still abysmal.

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB

[koolkatluke]

People need too understand the "PRO READY" thing. It doesn't mean he can carry a team from day one. It means he can pick up the offense fast and be ready too play from day one. Just because Jimmy was "Pro Ready" didn't mean he was going too come in and dominate from day one. JMO I think it meant he could be a game manager if everything around him was good. Which lets be honest it wasn't. Now again I'm not saying Jimmy didn't play horrible but at the draft when we picked Jimmy. Everybody on the panal thought Jimmy would be good not for what he did his 1st year but the situation he was coming too. 2 1,000 RB a solid Oline a owner who will spend (now the OC and QB coach sucked we all knew that) and a star wr . Well none of that happen. So no matter how "Pro Ready" you are if the parts around you don't work. You will suffer.

[monstercat]

If playing in a pro style offense and having great mechanics is the key, then we should draft T.J Yates. If we want a stud at QB, we should draft Cam Newton.

[panthers55]

People need too understand the "PRO READY" thing. It doesn't mean he can carry a team from day one. It means he can pick up the offense fast and be ready too play from day one. Just because Jimmy was "Pro Ready" didn't mean he was going too come in and dominate from day one. JMO I think it meant he could be a game manager if everything around him was good. Which lets be honest it wasn't. Now again I'm not saying Jimmy didn't play horrible but at the draft when we picked Jimmy. Everybody on the panal thought Jimmy would be good not for what he did his 1st year but the situation he was coming too. 2 1,000 RB a solid Oline a owner who will spend (now the OC and QB coach sucked we all knew that) and a star wr . Well none of that happen. So no matter how "Pro Ready" you are if the parts around you don't work. You will suffer.

Being pro ready coming from a pro-style offense like Weiss ran to Davidson's system meant that the terminology was the same, the concepts were similar and the reads and plays were similar. Davidson's system was more complex and the defenses were going to be tougher but Clausen knew the basics already.

It meant that he should have adjusted to the pace of the game, should have a good understanding of the offense and should have been able to run it rather quickly.

However given that he was repeatedly described as shell-shocked and totally unprepared would belie all of that. Everyone thought that he should compete for the starter role and be able to contribute from day 1 not sit and learn for a year.

Hence the reason he was considered the most pro-offense ready of anyone in the draft.

Obviously that was not the case and it speaks to some large question marks about Clausen going forward. In fact the failure of Clausen to play even close to expectations despite all the issues is the primary reason we are considering a QB with the first pick.

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[grateflday]

Well written and accurate. I think the key word here is "risk." Many people who want Newton are entranced by his potential. He is a stud and the poster boy for the "workout warrior" if you ask me. This is the time when everyone should know his stock would be the highest. Drink the Kool-aid if your desperation permits it, but the RISK is too large to spend $55 million and the first overall pick on a gamble. Regardless of what people think they know, Newton is a high dollar, high risk, gamble.

JR will probably not gamble on the first pick. Why has Hurney never drafted a first round QB? WR? They are high risk. He takes safe picks who have obvious abilities to convert to the NFL. If he picks Newton, it is because they have explored the risk factors and feel he is a rather certain upgrade. I will be OK with that. But if he is like a lot of folks on this board, drunk by his potential, we are in for a rough 3-4 years.

Any pick is a gamble and escpecially with this years they are all similiar gambles as Newton. Also the fact Hurney andc Co. have been in this abysmal QB situation for multiple seasons now IS because they never drafted a first round QB!! Yeah, I know how that is not a sure thing, but has been discussed numerous times - most QB's that end up being good to great to elite were drafted in the 1st round. It is always a gamble but one that every franchise eventually has to take. Cam Newton is worth it and Hurney has seen this one error in his recent ways and the Panthers will pick him #1. They will also bring in a Veteran somehow.

[koolkatluke]

Being pro ready coming from a pro-style offense like Weiss ran to Davidson's system meant that the terminology was the same, the concepts were similar and the reads and plays were similar. Davidson's system was more complex and the defenses were going to be tougher but Clausen knew the basics already.

It meant that he should have adjusted to the pace of the game, should have a good understanding of the offense and should have been able to run it rather quickly.

However given that he was repeatedly described as shell-shocked and totally unprepared would belie all of that. Everyone thought that he should compete for the starter role and be able to contribute from day 1 not sit and learn for a year.

Hence the reason he was considered the most pro-offense ready of anyone in the draft.

Obviously that was not the case and it speaks to some large question marks about Clausen going forward. In fact the failure of Clausen to play even close to expectations despite all the issues is the primary reason we are considering a QB with the first pick.

In what I posted did we not say the same thing? "Pro ready" should be able too pick up the offence qucikly, ready too compete and start from day one without sitting for a year, able too contribute (which a game manager does) from day one.

Only things I disagree with is having Weiss call plays and having Davidson call plays are 2 different things. Weiss while not being a good HC is a great OC which Davidson is NOT!!!! Look what Weiss did for that KC team. Davidson is not on the same level in play calling or developing younger players. Davidson is maybe the worst OC in the league.

I think we also disagree with any QB "PRO READY" or not needing a good too great supporting cast. Matt Ryan when he came out had a great running game, Oline was solid, WR and TE weapons and a good OC and Qb coach. Plus no major injuries too key players his rookie year. Mark Sanchez was stat wise bad but W-L record was good because he had a great defence a great oline and running game. Falcco (sorry if spelled wrong) had the same type stuff. So any QB "Pro Ready" or not still needs a good supporting cast. If you can be honest with yourself you will see that Jimmy was not put in the best situation for a rookie. Again I'm not saying that he didn't F'up alot.

[panthers55]

In what I posted did we not say the same thing? "Pro ready" should be able too pick up the offence qucikly, ready too compete and start from day one without sitting for a year, able too contribute (which a game manager does) from day one.

Only things I disagree with is having Weiss call plays and having Davidson call plays are 2 different things. Weiss while not being a good HC is a great OC which Davidson is NOT!!!! Look what Weiss did for that KC team. Davidson is not on the same level in play calling or developing younger players. Davidson is maybe the worst OC in the league.

I think we also disagree with any QB "PRO READY" or not needing a good too great supporting cast. Matt Ryan when he came out had a great running game, Oline was solid, WR and TE weapons and a good OC and Qb coach. Plus no major injuries too key players his rookie year. Mark Sanchez was stat wise bad but W-L record was good because he had a great defence a great oline and running game. Falcco (sorry if spelled wrong) had the same type stuff. So any QB "Pro Ready" or not still needs a good supporting cast. If you can be honest with yourself you will see that Jimmy was not put in the best situation for a rookie. Again I'm not saying that he didn't F'up alot.

Davidson worked for Weiss when they both were at New England. Davidson's system is Weiss's system. You could accurately argue that while it was the same system Davidson didn't run it like Weiss did but people quickly forget that this same system yielded large results in 2008 with jake as QB. The point I was making was that not only was Clausen coming from a pro-ready system but he was going into virtually the same system in the pros that he left in college. The numbering system, reads and calls were almost identical which should have made the transition easy.

As for having a good supporting cast, injuries were a huge issue. But honestly I think that his supporting cast wasn't as bad as they looked with him at the helm. By not throwing downfield for example it negated Steve Smith arguably still your best receiver, and it hampered the running game and increased the liklihood of being blitzed since the safeties stayed in the box. Everyone knew when it was third and more than 2, Clausen was going to be blitzed and most likely sacked.

Look at the supporting cast Beuerlein had when he played taking 50 sacks yet still putting up good numbers and going 8-8 and get back with me.