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"If it were up to me to fix the QB spot, I would..."

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

Posted
Posted

I thought you didn't read my posts?
thats only in conversations/threads that are specifically about newton. thought it was safe in this thread. anyway...

Anyway, I agree but I think some players are higher risks/bigger gambles than others. As an organization you have to take calculated risks not "big gambles" when drafting, especially at #1 overall.

The last two teams to take a "Big Gamble" for a QB at #1 haven't yet recovered. For one it's been 6 years and no end is in sight.

not sure who your other "big gamble" is referring to, but in regards to russell...he wasn't considered a big gamble at the time. people were willing to overlook a poor work ethic as well as a lack of other key intangibles in favor of some guy who is just a big guy with a cannon arm. they thought you could coach the rest of the stuff or mold him into what they wanted, but they didn't take into account the effect of having a poor work ethic would have on what they were trying to accomplish with him. the potential there was immense, but he just didn't have the drive to make it happen. he was also very limited in what he brought to the table. he wasn't particularly mobile and he was slow as a slug (and about as intelligent).

draftniks and scouts have learned a lot since then. that is why you don't see mallett ranked very high on anyones rankings. those are the main things that you can say about mallett...that he is a big guy with a cannon arm.

newton has a much stronger work ethic than russell and will go further just on that. newton isn't nearly as one dimensional as russell. he brings a whole lot more to the table as a passer, an athlete, a runner, and intangibles.

pretty obvious i don't think he has any real character problems anymore. he grew out of that thanks to the people he's had around him since leaving florida. if you can look past the supposed character flaws, the only thing that really would be holding him back is his work ethic and football IQ. those that have experience with him say that his work ethic is top notch and he is very coachable and able to pick up on whatever is taught to him. it's just a matter of whether that comes out in interviews.

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Galvatron Newbie

Galvatron

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thats only in conversations/threads that are specifically about newton. thought it was safe in this thread. anyway...

not sure who your other "big gamble" is referring to, but in regards to russell...he wasn't considered a big gamble at the time. people were willing to overlook a poor work ethic as well as a lack of other key intangibles in favor of some guy who is just a big guy with a cannon arm. they thought you could coach the rest of the stuff or mold him into what they wanted, but they didn't take into account the effect of having a poor work ethic would have on what they were trying to accomplish with him. the potential there was immense, but he just didn't have the drive to make it happen. he was also very limited in what he brought to the table. he wasn't particularly mobile and he was slow as a slug (and about as intelligent).

draftniks and scouts have learned a lot since then. that is why you don't see mallett ranked very high on anyones rankings. those are the main things that you can say about mallett...that he is a big guy with a cannon arm.

newton has a much stronger work ethic than russell and will go further just on that. newton isn't nearly as one dimensional as russell. he brings a whole lot more to the table as a passer, an athlete, a runner, and intangibles.

pretty obvious i don't think he has any real character problems anymore. he grew out of that thanks to the people he's had around him since leaving florida. if you can look past the supposed character flaws, the only thing that really would be holding him back is his work ethic and football IQ. those that have experience with him say that his work ethic is top notch and he is very coachable and able to pick up on whatever is taught to him. it's just a matter of whether that comes out in interviews.

A pretty big factor with Russel was who had the pick; I mean when was the last time Oakland really hit big in the first round? '03 with Aso

If OAK wasn't in the first round hypothetically, where do you think he would have gone?

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

Posted
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thats only in conversations/threads that are specifically about newton. thought it was safe in this thread. anyway...

not sure who your other "big gamble" is referring to, but in regards to russell...he wasn't considered a big gamble at the time. people were willing to overlook a poor work ethic as well as a lack of other key intangibles in favor of some guy who is just a big guy with a cannon arm. they thought you could coach the rest of the stuff or mold him into what they wanted, but they didn't take into account the effect of having a poor work ethic would have on what they were trying to accomplish with him. the potential there was immense, but he just didn't have the drive to make it happen. he was also very limited in what he brought to the table. he wasn't particularly mobile and he was slow as a slug (and about as intelligent).

draftniks and scouts have learned a lot since then. that is why you don't see mallett ranked very high on anyones rankings. those are the main things that you can say about mallett...that he is a big guy with a cannon arm.

newton has a much stronger work ethic than russell and will go further just on that. newton isn't nearly as one dimensional as russell. he brings a whole lot more to the table as a passer, an athlete, a runner, and intangibles.

pretty obvious i don't think he has any real character problems anymore. he grew out of that thanks to the people he's had around him since leaving florida. if you can look past the supposed character flaws, the only thing that really would be holding him back is his work ethic and football IQ. those that have experience with him say that his work ethic is top notch and he is very coachable and able to pick up on whatever is taught to him. it's just a matter of whether that comes out in interviews.

So are you saying Russell wasn't a big gamble and Cam also is not a big gamble?

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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So are you saying Russell wasn't a big gamble and Cam also is not a big gamble?

Russell wasn't a big gamble when drafted. Hindsight makes him look like a bigger one than he really was. The Raiders actually did what most thought was the smart move for a change.

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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A pretty big factor with Russel was who had the pick; I mean when was the last time Oakland really hit big in the first round? '03 with Aso

If OAK wasn't in the first round hypothetically, where do you think he would have gone?

i don't know. i do know i wasn't a huge fan of russell, but i didn't doubt he would get past the top 5 picks. i was a pretty big advocate for calvin johnson getting picked #1 and thought it made a lot of sense for them to draft him. i also thought that quinn had more chance of being a successful QB and thought he would go earlier though by draft time it was pretty evident that they were only interested in russell or calvin johnson. i also couldn't see quinn surviving one season in the black hole. that place would have eaten him alive.

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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So are you saying Russell wasn't a big gamble and Cam also is not a big gamble?
russell wasn't viewed as a big gamble, but people were focusing in on the wrong tings, namely his size and arm, and were overlooking some very imprtant things.

newton isn't nearly the gamble that russell turned out to be. he has a lot more talent and has a lot more in the intangible department.

i didn't like russell, but i have to admit i had no idea that he would bust the way that he did. i wasn't looking at his work ethic and his love for the game and dedication to improving and growing as a player and as a man. i know look at those tings a lot more closely as do most scouts and draftniks. newton has him beat by a mile in all of those areas. i doubt there are many who would doubt that and it isn't for lack of questioning it.

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TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

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russell wasn't viewed as a big gamble, but people were focusing in on the wrong tings, namely his size and arm, and were overlooking some very imprtant things.

newton isn't nearly the gamble that russell turned out to be. he has a lot more talent and has a lot more in the intangible department.

i didn't like russell, but i have to admit i had no idea that he would bust the way that he did. i wasn't looking at his work ethic and his love for the game and dedication to improving and growing as a player and as a man. i know look at those tings a lot more closely as do most scouts and draftniks. newton has him beat by a mile in all of those areas. i doubt there are many who would doubt that and it isn't for lack of questioning it.

Let's focus on the one that was more of a gamble then and talk about A Smith. Similar story to Newton. Came from a spread OPTION offense. Was very fast but people questioned how he'd handle a pro offense. A Rod was sitting there as well and although many felt neither were worth the #1 pick, SF just had to have one and forced themselves to pick a franchise guy. 6 years later. Same thing.

Was he not a gamble?

All the other QBs taken at #1 this decade were far less of gambles than A Smith and Russell and have worked out better so far.

You can throw Carr in there but between Harrington and Carr and being an expansion team they were going to reach no matter what.

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micnificent28 Mentor

micnificent28

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Newton has a few fixable mechanical issues. He doesn't have any obvious idiosyncrasies to his game; no odd motions and his upfield speed is a wonder to behold. The real questions about Newton come from the things one can't always see on the field – football I.Q., ability to make every read consistently, and ability to take snap after snap under center.

These are the same questions that have dogged every option quarterback trying to transition to a pro-style offense, but Newton has advantages that his predecessors didn't. First, while most spread-offense quarterbacks had noodle arms, Newton can air it downfield as well as any quarterback at any level. Second, with the number of shotgun snaps increasing by over 300 percent in the last decade, those quarterbacks who played in these types of offenses aren't doomed.

In 2008, current Buffalo Bills head coach Chan Gailey employed the Pistol offense with former college spread quarterback Tyler Thigpen(notes) to great effect, and in 2009, Tennessee Titans offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger ran the triple option with Vince Young(notes) at quarterback – the result was an incredible offense in which running back Chris Johnson gained over 2,000 yards on the ground. If Newton finds himself on an NFL team (like Buffalo, which would be by far his best fit as long as Gailey's still there), he could reinvent the position of quarterback in the NFL by becoming the first read-and-run field general to succeed year after year.

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